Let's face it

[Ronin 0]

I've installed W2K about ten times now, everytime I install it I do so because there is a new fix or new drivers that will allow me to play games better. But I have come full circle.

 

Windows 2000 will never be a gamers os.

 

There are just to many problems that will prevent it from every being that. MS as we can all see is not interested in us so I guess we will have to just either use 98 or Millenium when it is released.

 

Just my opinion,

 

What do you think?

 

...

[Iceman 0]

I think that once Windows 2000 goes gold and gaming companies and hardware companies start releasing the proper final drivers and patches for Windows 2000 it will be a better OS for gaming.

 

Windows 2000 is still in beta, treat it as such.

[SHS 0]

Well said Iceman

[Seldzar 0]

Geeeeeeez Ronin you are making a conclusive decision on a beta OS with hacked/beta drivers. Not to mention trying to run games that weren't designed to run with win2k in mind and with no support from the designers.(possibly, since I don't know what games your playing). I have many a game working perfectly fine on my machine so I can only guess at what your doing wrong. Not only are video drivers and issue theres also the issue with the gmaes not being created for the NT kernal also any hacked games can cause problems due to the way in which they were hacked. Win2k is the future of MS's OS's. Millenium is a gap filler till the fully consumer NT based OS is out in 2001, nothing more. Since the future of MS's OS resides on the NT kernal, your damn straight win2k is going to be a gamers OS. DX7 is fully integrated and fully compatible, all we need now are proper divers from our respective 3d card companies and patches for our favorite games. All future and new games are almost guarunteed to work in win2k. Don't beleive me?. Take a look at the list of new games that work flawlessly. http://seldzar.dhs.org under compatability.

 

I'm not having really any trouble with win2k.

[Ronin 0]

W2K has been in beta for awhile now, why have none of the major 3D vendors released any drivers. Also CL has not released any drivers. I mean why do we have to run hacked drivers on an OS that has been in beta for so long and that will be released in the next few months. It just makes no sence.

 

I like W2K but it's a pain in the ass to get things working.

 

Oh my systems is as follows.

 

Dual PIII 600

SuperMicro P6DBU

(ALL Scsi)

256 Pc133 Ram

CL Geforce

Plextor UltraWide 40x Cdrom

Yamaha 6x4x16X

Sony 6x DVD

18 gig Cheetah U2W

18 gig Quantum Atlas III

CL SB Live X-Gamer

CL Digital 5.1 speaker system

 

I would consider my system to be high end and the 2 major components of my system (Video and Sound) are not supported by MS. They are supported but sound only gives you 2 speakers and video only 2D, without using some haked drivers or having to follow some 30 page instructions on how to get your SB live card to work.

 

Why is that? After all W2K has been in beta for a long time now and we have not seen a beta release of drivers from either of them.

 

Quake 3 sucks because the gamma slider does not work al all. That is not id's fault that is because DX7 and the video drivers are not right.

 

My 3Com ISDN card only works at 64K ( I have ISDN because I can't get cable or ASDL yet and that sucks I know) That is not 3Coms fault that would MS.

 

I think everyone that thinks W2K is going to be a gamers OS is just dreaming. Windows Millenium will be a reworked version of 98 that's all.

 

I don't think we wil ever see W2K be a gamers OS as much as 98 or Millenium and that is because MS has a different road that they want W2K to take.

 

I'm worng (I can hear everyone say that) but everything that I have read and seen just tells me that W2K is not for the hardcore gamer.

 

...

[Jerry - 0]

If you've installed it 10 times and are not yet satisfied, maybe just maybe it is'nt for you?? Try the sblive fix, it works, try those "hacked beta drivers" for your video card. I Can't complain about windows 2000, if it never expired there'd be no real reason to buy it. Have Fun!!!

[Ronin 0]

I've installed the drivers for my video card, but I have not tried the SB fix.

 

You are right though there is really no reason to buy it.

 

You know the thing that really bugs me is all the talk before the Geforce came out, and Nvidia saying they would have available for download W2K driver. Well I have not seen any yet. I just don't understand why CL and Nivida and all the hardware vendors can not release drivers for us to download. It's are problem if they screw are systems up, let us make the choice. But we are at there mercy.

 

 

...

[Seldzar 0]

What part don't you get? Beta OS = NO F**KING support till it's final. Quit crying about how companies have no beta drivers out, at what point do they HAVE TO support a beta os, huh? Geeez this is a really hard concept for some people. Quit crying and complaining about how bad it is untill it's final and companies officially offer proper drivers and what not. Till then don't use the damn OS and live with crappy 98. Win2k works great for like 90% of the people here, me included. And NO there's nothing wrong with DX7 it's the Nvidia video drivers you are using. I'm tired of hearing people complain about issues with win2k and how the os sucks cause joe blow can't some **** to work right. The whole point of installing a beta OS is to try it out and figure out where your issues lie and what to expect for/when you upgrade. I didn't use win2k till just before rc2 as I had no sound. Did i complain? no I just didn't use it till most of my issues were fixable or fixed.

 

P.s. win2k not a gamers os, we're dreaming? Did you not read that part about the NT kernal being MS's ENTIRE FUTURE? Obviously not. I will repeat all ms future os except for millenium is NT kernal based there fore gaming WILL and MUST work on it and it does.

 

[This message has been edited by Seldzar (edited 12 December 1999).]

[Ronin 0]

Forget I even posted a message. You know there always has to be one guy who gets so worked up over someone just posting a message. I was just posting to vent my frustration over W2K and what happens? I get some guy giving me the defintion of what Beta means.

 

Man I just had a revelation, W2k will be everything that all of us HOPE it will be.

 

ya when monkeys fly out of my ass.

 

...

[Ronin 0]

Question?

 

Why would MS release W2K and then six months later release Windows Millenium? It makes no sence, I know that the future is with the NT kernel but why release 2 seperate operating systems so close to each other. Hell none of this will matter in 5 years anyway. Linux will be just as strong as MS

[SHS 0]

Ronin I like point out to you as Voodoo3 owen that both cards don't support SMP all that well in fact 3dfx all started in they owen forum on this Subject,

Thread Subject = I need everyone's help - SMP V3 support =) Jarrod http://www.3dfxgamers.com/message-board....5-00902761F192}

You better are off useing the buildin SBLive LW3 don't work with SMP system

& as far as your modem gose I start ***** at 3com yes it is 3Coms fault, Microsoft dosen't write the drivers.

Have your ever hear of MCM2 ? it will be the frist DX game to support SMP.

SMP is comeing but it take time.

 

[This message has been edited by SHS (edited 12 December 1999).]

[SHS 0]

If and win Linux find a better way to install drivers & app & some game with out the need of recomplie that will be day I take another look at it.

Rally check here Linux take more space then Win2K dose in fact 1.3gig "RadHat 6.1"

config this Linux can be a real pain a@@.

As far as Windows Millenium gose

we know it last of Dos kernel but with out lot of the 16 bit latched codes.

MS is trying very hard to move ever closer out of 16bit code in to pure 32bit codes for a consumer OS, this where NT kernel comein better & faster & don't crash with good build drivers this where the Win2k-based consumer OS come in it will be base on NT kernel but it need be more like Win9x OS so it eazy to use for consumer this why Linux will fail then agine it still got a long way to go on the other BeOS may Take the Win it eazy to use but lack drivers & games support.

[chameleon 0]

Can't we all just get along, cant you all see this is exactly what Bill Gates wants to happen, makes us all fight against each other so he can be supreme ruler of the new millennium. We need to team up and kick his $500 a second income up you know where! Let's all put our heads together and make our own perfect Gaming OS! like Microsoft Windows Ultra* "Gamer's Choice" and sell it for $69.99. with built in support for Blue Gene and GeForce 2 out of the box! ehh ..nice huh. lets get cracking! ;oP

 

chameleon kyoshiro

win2kbox.8m.com new home of MS Windows Ultra!*

 

*im under the intoxication of alcohol, drink safely! MS Windows and Windows 2000 trademark of Bill Gates and Microsoft Corp. 1999-2000.

[SHS 0]

You are brackin up the wrong tree chameleon

nVida need to get off there butt & fix the problem not MS.

nVida need stop with all one driver,

& make one driver for each products.

[Igor 0]

hmm... had one to many Chameleon ?

[cknyc 0]

I like win2k, I thought the regular tnt2 drivers worked for the geforce. As for quake3, i have a tnt2U and i dont have a gamma problem. i dont know what the difference would be with the geforce. The only thing that pisses me off is not having full sblive support. I want my different dsp settings. I hate having to use winamp plugins. Other than that I love this OS . i just wish there was a command line interface. I use the old aopen drivers and this baby is real stable(for tnt2), i tried the newer nvidia drivers and Q3 would crash every so often gowing from full screen to window..

 

Im happy though, i dont have d3d but i have direct draw and opengl. All i play are AOE2 and Q3 so im fine...

 

[This message has been edited by cknyc (edited 12 December 1999).]

[JvG 0]

I don't see what the problem is, the NVIDIA 3.64 Win2k drivers work fine with my Annihilator Pro (GeForce DDR), with the exception that AGP is disabled in these drivers which makes everything run slower compared to Win98. But most of the games I've tried work just fine.

[antrant 0]

Like Ronin, I too have major problems getting games to work in win2k. 3D games that is. 2D games work, all of them

 

But not many 3D games. Ok, Unreal (not tournament) is as fast as in win98, but it freezes the computer within 1-2 minutes if I have fog enabled. Whe it's off, it crashes after 10 mins with pallette errors. Expendable do the same. Quake 3 is a joke, but Nocturne is actually playable eve though the polygons tend to flimmer. Mechwarrior 3 is perfect, but SS2 don't even start.

 

Quake2 is crashing and Trickstyle aslo.

 

But this is me using a G400 Max. And they don't have any good 3d drivers for win2k... with my old voodoo2 and tnt however, I could play all the above games with no problemo.

 

(see my homepage) I bet, at the next driver release from Matrox, half of the above games that wasn't playable, will be.

 

What I really hope is that the DOJ forces Micro$oft to lower win2k professional prices. Then we'll see some real NT kernel consumer action

[Crash99 0]

I am not a computer wizard, but I know that it just takes a little bit of patience to get win2k running. I've got build 2128. I have sound and my geforce and voodoo2's work great. I have increased performance in most games that I get to run. My soundblaster live works good enough (for now). Maybe I have a severly defective rc2 that works, or maybe more likely, I have a setup that happens to be extremely compatible. I think people are too quickly blaming software, that some of us aren't even supposed to have.

[JimmyK 0]

hmm... you guys should see this there is a frog on my windows slowly sliding down its pretty funny.

[RoGuE 0]

good morning all....i havent been around in a few days, and boy has it heated up around here. i just thought i put my 2 cents in here. most of you guys who are whining about w2k{would you like some cheese with that wine?} should just leave it alone. you need to have some patience to work with this os. i personally have very few problems with it. as far as it being a gaming platform? yes it is, and a very good one i might add. i have personally called creative labs tech support and they are not going to have drivers for their products till feb when its released, why? because they are lazy, they dont have to have any kind of support for it till then. i use the hacked and beta drivers for tnt2 u, sblive and other hardware and my system works flawlessly{except for a few very minow problems}. i dont know what you guys are doing wrong but the first step is to listen. dont come here and start shooting off your mouth. just read what other members saying and go from there. when i first came here i was having huge problems and found that most of the guys here are real nice and they have helped me get the latest builds of w2k and have helped me get my hardware running. i must send out personal thanks to chameleon who has spent hours on icq with me working through some compatibility probs. but all works good now. my conclusion? if you spend your time crying and frustrated youll never get your os running because your not listening to whats going on. stop sitting around thinkin about how much you know and try to build on what you know by learning more. i build gaming systems for a living and i plan on using w2k as my gaming platform...most of my customers complained about the unstability of win98. i have unreal tourney, unreal, halflife, kingpin, quake2, quake3, and several other games working, hell i even have quake1 working excellent on my puter. so i think the problems lie with you my friend not the os. so shutup and listen or go back to win98 and sit through the reboots. this is my opion and i could be wrong

[peaje 0]

Guys.. im a Beta Tester for MS. I can tell you that Windows 2000 is and OS NOT for the home consumers. This OS is not been made for Gameing. This is the same NT with new features (like PNP,more user friendly) like NT 4.0 was supposed to be at first place.

 

Do you guys want to know why MS is building Millennium? they say: MOST USERS CANT HANDLE NT.

 

Sure.. you can play most of the games because the new features like DX7 and all that,but still.. this is not a OS for gaming.

MS has said that 100 of times in the newsgroups.

 

Do you want to play with the performance of Win98? and the power of Win 2000?

 

Wait until 2001 when they release "Windows NEPTUNE".

 

Dont keep waisting your time. I also want to add that it is good that all companies work in their drivers in beta stages with the OS. That gives you the confidence that when it the product hits GOLD, they will work.

 

So with all these beta drivers having problems on the run, why you should expect a driver to work with the final product?

 

Are they going to make the driver and the exact moment when the OS hits GOLD?

 

that sounds stupid... the quality of the driver is not pretty trustable.

 

these are my 2 cents.

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by peaje (edited 13 December 1999).]

[SHS 0]

Hello peaje so am I.

Your wrong peaje Win2000 will make a damn nice gameing system as well apps.

Games developer & Apps developer have ***** for DX in NT4 Hmm I wonder why ?.

So it ture it not as fast as Win9x OS

so what do know why ? I tell you why most games & apps are build around Win9x system

& WinNT.

Millennium is Dos base & suck from word go.

Wrong agine you mean 2002 or 3 then they will release "Windows NEPTUNE" home consumers ver base on NT kernel.

"MOST USERS CANT HANDLE NT" Frist time User yes that would be ture if they never had Computer before.

1 let start with fact that Win2000 has DX7 & there ICS & DVD & High End CD Player

from Win98 Plus! & IIS now why would any Buiss want this In Win200oPro they don't we home consumers do we work at home so we need best of both worlds.

[peaje 0]

Still.. Windows 2000 is not for the HOME USERS.

 

Oh yeah.. it has the "best of both worlds" but is not created for Gameing.

 

I know is easier now to deal with NT. And maybe the new computer user will be easier to deal with it. But the main issue is there.

 

This plataform is better than NT.4 as User interface and some PnP adittions and NOW WE HAVE AT LAST A DEVICE MANAGER!! but still this aint no Game plataform.

 

That we are going to run games nicely on Windows 2000?? of course we are, but not at smoth like we run it on Win98 or Millennium.

 

Im testing Windows Millennium right now, Yeah.. is still DOS based.. but with no REAL DOS MODE. Is it faster? well let me tell you that this systems boots in 40 seconds and i have my system very load it with apps and stuff.

 

I have at work a QUANTEX DUAL P-III 450 and a GATEWAY PERFORMANCE P-III 500 at home both have 128 RAM and TNT2 and etc.. etc.

 

Let me tell you that most of the games perform SUPERB!! on Millennium than in Windows 2000. Even Q3 Arena using SMP on the Quantex (QUANTEX GIVES 56 FPS) The gateway (Does 54 FPS) and it only uses 1 processor.

 

I hope the new games up coming for the next year and the companies that makes their drivers do something to optimize the performance of games on Windows 2000 plataform.

 

Sorry.. but it doesnt perform like it should for games.

[DrSchmoe 0]

How many times do people need to say "this is a beta" before the concept of a Beta OS sinks in?

 

Not to be critical, but everyone has these problems which is the result of drivers, and naturally, it somehow ends up being Microsoft's fault. I would assume it will probably be April before we see decent drivers from all the big firms.

 

My personal favorite is the LiveWare hack. Everyone seems to use it, but in the process, you end up tossing DirectSound. At least the WDM drivers provide hooks, whereas the NT4 drivers do not. Personally, I opted for the WDM drivers. As for video cards, to the best of my knowledge, NVidia is the only firm to provide a passable driver (which has yet to support AGP). Which is a shame since I have a Rage 128 =)

 

There also seems to be this crowd of Millennium fans out there. Which is quite funny since the general consensus is that development is being discontinued. See this article for more: http://www.winntmag.com/Articles/Content/7775_01.html . There are other articles, but this was the most handy.

 

Anyway, I just wanted to stop lurking and spout off. My hair was beginning to recede from the stress of reading.

 

DrSchmoe

 

[This message has been edited by DrSchmoe (edited 15 December 1999).]