What XP procesess can i shut down(ctrl-alt-delete)

[enio 0]

And what do they mean anyway

[Brian Frank 0]

Leave them be. They each have a specific role in keeping your system running smoothly. If your system is feeling sluggish, you may want to look at how much RAM you got.

[FadedTimes 0]

Go to your administrative tools and turn off some of the services

this is fo win2k but also work in XP

http://www.3dspotlight.com/tweaks/win2k_services/index.shtml

Turning off services will make some of the exe's running in task mananger go away, saving cpu cycles and memory.

[DrPizza 0]

Turning off such services is something of a false economy. If you need them then, obviously, you need them so can't turn them off anyway. If you don't need them, then the OS will flush them out to the pagefile anyway (that is to say, they won't consume any RAM), and will give them no processor cycles (that is to say, they won't consume any processor).

 

And as there can be all sorts of odd interactions between services, it's generally not wise to turn them off unless you're absolutely certain of what a service is, and what things depend on it.

[DrPizza 0]

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Originally posted by AlecStaar
Really?

If I am not printing (rare here unless coding), & faxing alot... I should leave the print spooler & fax service on?

(You're saying that turning them off is not worth doing?)

Yes.

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Setting them (my example of PrintSpooler & Fax Services) to manual lets me turn them on & off as needed!

AND, stops flushing to Disk I/O & CPU Usage in the doing of it, plus taking up pagefile space with data I won't use anyhow! AND, stops the use of my RAM & CPU time in running them in the FIRST PLACE if I don't need them!

If they're not actually running (i.e. nothing is printing or faxing) then they don't consume any processor resources. Preventing them from "taking up pagefile space" makes your computer run no faster.

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Let's assume you're right about it flushing them to disk...

1.) CPU cycles are not being used to do flush them to disk, to run them in the first place?

They get used to flush them to disk. Once. But that's a negligible load.

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(Flushing to disk virtual memory would not have to be done AT ALL if you don't run them from system boot or automatic in the first place!)

But it doesn't introduce a measurable overhead... so why bother?

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2.) Flushing to disk virtual memory from RAM, you're telling us that Disk I/O is not a factor & used in the doing of it in flushing anything out of RAM to the pagefile??

I haven't said anything of the sort. It is, however, a once-off action. It'll happen if and only if the system needs the memory. If the system never needs the memory, it'll never flush them to disk, and you'll get the bonus of slightly quicker printing.

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3.) You're saying that by turning them on, you'red not consuming RAM while loading in the first place???

If your system needs the RAM, it will flush them out of RAM entirely. If it doesn't need the RAM, you benefit from slightly faster printing.

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Even flushed to disk, they take up virtual memory space!

So?

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That data of theirs is more data for the system to read thru to GET to other data that is needed! That unused service daemon data is in the way!

It would be if that were how it worked. But fortunately, it isn't. Locating a page in the page table is independent of the amount of data in the pagefile. Locating a page in the pagefile is independent of the amount of data in the pagefile.

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(If you don't need them, why load them at all? That's dead weight...)

I print once in a while. So, it would seem, do you. So arguably, we do need them.

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* Tuning services is as old as DOS & turning off TSR's & is used on Unixes with uneeded running of daemon processes as well DrPizza (or should I say, PeterB).

It's normally a false economy. If you need the service running, it's quicker to page it back in from the pagefile than it is to reload it. If your system isn't pressured for RAM, the service will stay in-memory, so will make printing (or whatever) faster.

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If you don't need them it's a known performance gaining trick! Known for ages on other Os', & applied to NT based ones effectively!

Except it gains you no performance. It doesn't make applications any faster. It doesn't relinquish processor time. It doesn't free up RAM. There is nowhere to make any gains.

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Yes, like I illustrated above! Faxing depends on the print spooler, it's called a dependency!

That isn't actually what I meant. Some mechanisms (for instance, configuration of Routing and Remote Access) require certain service to be running -- but they don't list those services as dependencies in the services MMC (nor the registry).

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Knowing them IS a good idea, what those dependencies are! Well, that's no big trick to find out! Each services TELLS its dependencies in its properties!

No, this isn't correct. They merely tell you which services they directly require in order to be able to run. They do not tell you if you need additional services in order to be able to do anything worthwhile. For instance, a number of features require the Remote Registry service to be running, but do not list it in any of their requirements (and do not start it if it's set to manual). Further, they do not give helpful error messages if it isn't running. Similarly, if you're running a Domain Controller, the DNS Server *must* be started before the NetLogon service. This isn't listed as a dependency, as the NetLogon service doesn't actually depend on the DNS Server service (it merely needs to be able to talk to a DNS server -- which, in the case of a Domain Controller, is running on the DC itself). In order to work properly, not only do both the services have to be running, but a dependency has to be manually configured through the registry (to ensure that NetLogon doesn't start before the DNS Server).

It would be nice if the dependency information in the registry/services control panel were always accurate, but unfortunately, it isn't.

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(That's the trick... Like that one I just illustrated with Print Spooler & Fax services! Again: No big trick, a closer look at them in their properties thru their dependencies tab shows it)

No, it doesn't. Alas.

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P.S.=> Show us the "false economy" of it... when turning off unused or automatically set daemon processes & TSR's have been known as a performance gainer for AGES on many OS & hardware platforms! apk

I have an application that is using precisely 0% of the processor, and occupying precisely 0% of RAM. Explain how performance will be altered by not running the application at all. I won't be able to use any more processor time (because it's not using any). The application isn't forcing me to page to disk more than I would have to (because it's not using any RAM). Where is it bottlenecking my system?

[clutch 1]

Welp, I guess this thread is going the same way as another one here. I will have to say that DrPizza does have some valid points about the contention-based system(s) that apps can and do employ in the Win32 environment, hence my lack of desire to shut down services that aren't directly bothering me.

 

Now, some apps affect RAM in the method that APK mentions. However, the only major app that I can really remember not doing this properly has been MS Exchange (both 5.5 and 2K) where they like to swallow all the remaining memory over a short course of time, and then "manage" (read: greedily hoardes and won't give up) the release of it to other apps that may need it. Exchange 5.5 provides a much easier method to cap this via the performance wizard, whereas Exchange 2000 takes a little more "finese".

 

So, how 'bout we just drop this and call it a day? When I get to the point where I can't do anymore with a topic, I simply state that I wont respond to it anymore, and then ignore it. You would be surprised by how well that works...

[enio 0]

Ok Coral shootout, like your arguments guys keep em comin !!!

[clutch 1]

Umm, naahhhh. Just settle it, or drop it. I like the debate and all, but seems that both of you have illustrated your separate points. Is this pretty much correct? Do you guys have anymore GOOD info on this topic? If you just want to vent at each other, take it to the "other" forum. I have placed this one over there for your viewing pleasure.

[DrPizza 0]

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That's an UNNEEDED LOAD! If a process of ANYKIND exists??

Nope. Windows NT doesn't give cycles to processes that are suspended. Not "it doesn't give them very many cycles" but "it doesn't give them any cycles at all".
Windows NT will also -- if necessary -- completely flush an application to disk. Not "mostly to disk" or "only a bit to disk" but "completely".

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It's a load on the system, what the heck do you think it is?

If the application is receiving no processor cycles, and if the application is consuming no RAM, where is the load?

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(And, more importantly, Why run it if I do not need it?)

Because you do not know if you need it or not. The dependency information in the registry merely dictates those services that a service needs to start. They do not take into account, for instance, that a domain controller needs to have DNS running before NetLogon. They do not take into account, for instance, that Routing and Remote Access needs Remote Registry in order to configure it properly.

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You are NOT making sense! That's like saying I should start ALL of Microsoft Office's apps to run Word!

No, it isn't. The dependencies are clear-cut in this case, and if you don't need Excel -- ever -- there's no point in starting it up. The same isn't true of services that are used only infrequently.

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PeterB/DrPizza: Tweaks accumulate, do that for alot of services it adds up! Let's use my raincoat idea: I am lighter & run cooler in nice weather without it... If I need it? I put it on...

Analogies are for the weak-minded. Please, stick to the subject at hand.

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LOL, really now? <snip> I am not using!

Because who knows when you'll need to print or fax? I don't print often, but I do occasionally... the Print Spooler service doesn't start itself up if it's set to manual (it probably /should/, but doesn't). Any "slowdown" that running the service unnecessarily might have is more than offset by the slowdown of my having to manually start the service each time I need it.

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Why use Disk I/O & CPU cycles flushing to disk AT ALL, especially for a process you don't run at all?

Because as you say, you do use it.

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Turn off services you don't need!

(1) There are plenty that I need only occasionally.
(2) There are plenty whose dependencies are not listed in the registry, and so which are unpredictable.

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This is even recommended for Back Office <snip> would you like the issue # & date?

I couldn't care less. Whilst obviously it makes sense for (say) IIS, or SQL Server, or Echange -- because they're not core components -- the same is not true for many of the other services, which provide low-level functionality to the rest of the system.

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I can turn the service on if needed & when needed by setting it to manual after checking its dependencies!

(1) The dependency information is sufficient to determine which services (and applications) rely on which other services.
(2) Having to manually turn on the service requires more of my time than I would ever lose from any potential "slow down" caused by having it run the whole time.

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For my use patterns this makes alot of sense, printing & faxing being my example! I rarely print & fax, I turn off those services until needed!

And so you waste more time than you might ever hope to gain.
Assuming your system is pressured for RAM, and assuming the print spooler wasn't paged to disk during an idle moment anyway, the overhead of paging it out is perhaps half a second (a one-off overhead; it won't get paged back in until needed).
If you can turn on any arbitrary service in less than half a second, then you've made a gain -- assuming that the service didn't get paged out when the machine was idle anyway. If it was idle when it paged the service out, you'd have to start the service in less than half a second.

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Hey, everyone, turn on your entire MS-Office suite because you need to run it all the time to use Word...

That would make no sense. Apart from anything else, MS Office isn't linked with the /WS:AGGRESSIVE linker option, which means that it won't so aggressively be paged out of memory. The same isn't true for many services. MS Office has a clear-cut set of dependencies and relationships between the components. The same isn't true of services.
That said, if your system really needs more free RAM, it will page anything out (except for some bits of the kernel/executive), including MS Office... once paged, the overhead will be nil, but unlike a service, which will often get paged out when the system is idle, MS Office will tend to only be paged out when the system is busy.

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If my system is working on a big datafile or database, or image, you are telling me it's faster for it to have to page services I don't need running in the first place out of RAM first?

They'll almost certainly already be paged out.... And if you want to, say:
(1) Work on a big database
(2) Print something
(3) Work on a big database some more
Then it'll be faster to just leave the Print Spooler running all the time.

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So my foreground database or imaging program can continue processing its data? Because some service application I don't even use is in the way??

It isn't "in the way". It's not doing anything, at all.

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I don't think so! I maximize free RAM right off, by not running services I do not use all the time! So my apps get that RAM, like larger games!

But Windows will give those applications the RAM -- if they ask for it -- anyway.

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When I do? I turn them on!

Which wastes more time than you might ever hope to save.

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Again, hey everyone: Turn on ALL Your games now, so you can load Quake III Arena faster, keep them on at system start whether you are playing them or not!

Quake III doesn't aggressively trim its working set. Quake III isn't a good citizen. Services are.

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None, except at system start having more CPU cycles free not running programs (services) I don't use all the time or not at all!

If you're in the habit of starting your system, perhaps you'll have problems. I don't know why you would be in the habit of doing anything of the sort.

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None, except more RAM free by not loading programs/services I don't use, like services I am not using! Services ARE programs dude!

But they don't use any memory if the OS has something more important wanting it, "dude".

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None, except for the I/O's not used by not running services I don't need!

Except that the time spent paging them out is less than the time you'll spend manually starting the (and certainly less than the time you'll spend troubleshooting when an unlisted dependency isn't fulfilled).

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Everyone turn on ALL of your internet apps right now, every one!Because like PeterB says, you might need to run Netscape! lol...heck with free RAM & CPU cycles, you will page like mad! But he says your system will run faster! What a crock!

No, because those applications are not linked in the same way. The system will tend to hang on to them for a bit longer.

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Do I say turn them all off? No... only ones you don't use all the time! I keep SOME of them on, ones I use ALL the time!

And I keep all the ones I use on. They don't consume any processor resources (until I actually use them). They don't consume any RAM (until I actually use them). They load quicker than having to manually start them. Where's the gain in turning them off?

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Here's my point to a tee: I DON'T RUN THOSE SERVICES! I don't allow remote registry control to run here either! It's a security risk and I run fine without it!

It isn't a security risk, unless your system is misconfigured. But you miss the point -- where does the dependency information state that in order to configure (but not run) RRAS, Remote Registry must be running? It doesn't. You need it running to configure RRAS, but nowhere does it bother to tell you this.

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Yes... I know PeterB, that's one I use (else I would not be here) & I leave that one running! lol... very good!

Actually, I doubt you do; NetLogon is only required if you're running in an NT/Active Directory Domain. The point, which again you've missed, is that although it can, and often does, depend on the DNS Server service, it isn't listed in its dependencies.

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Really? I seem to be running fine here! So do most of the folks practicing this!

And I'm running fine here... without ever having to waste time manually starting services.

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According to you, in order for me to run parts of Microsoft Office? I should have all the apps in it open right now at once & at system start... to run Word! lol, Same idea.

Er, no, completely different idea. Word doesn't provide services to the rest of the OS.

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That must be a miracle process... I have never seen a program that uses absolutely 0% of the CPU during its lifecycle, & absolutely 0% of the RAM too! Amazing!

Uhhhh. No, not really. Write a program that:
(1) Gets a handle to the current thread.
(2) Calls SuspendThread on that handle.
(3) Link the program with the /WS:AGGRESSIVE option.
Your application will no longer be running, and, if the system is short on memory, will be paged out in its entirety.

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Write me that program, please... <snip> it does NOT exist!

Ooops:

#include <windows.h>
int main(int argc, char* argv[])
{
SuspendThread(GetCurrentThread());
return 0;
}

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P.S.=> Folks about the LOL stuff? <snip> ah, it's sure nice to have fans, lol, but not psycho stalker ones! apk

I'm not the one who sends abusive e-mail with forged headers to people. The only psycho round here is yourself.

[Philipp 6]

No.. not again ;(

 

Dr.Pizza & APK:

Please use email for your discussion. Thread closed.