Intel P4 vs. AMD XP what's the deal?

[CyberGenX 0]

yes I knew that, just wanted to throw in the fact that AMD chips ran on Intel motherboards for a while there.

[CyberGenX 0]

And of course you don't see AMD chips on INtel boards anymore, That would be like UPS delivering all the USPS's mail. People were buying AMD chips cheaper and putting them on Intel boards, Intel didn't like that.

[NotSoSmart 0]

All I will say is that I get tired of my friends calling me about whats wrong with there AMD Raid super cool system all the time!!

 

I have built computers with ALL the chipsets out there yes even pcchips or whatever they are and the ones that ALWAYS seem to work with the least worrys have been Intel.

 

 

I'm not saying that a SIS or VIA can't be just as good but these other chipsets just always seem to need a little added extra attention to get just right.

 

 

I'm happy as a SOB with my new P4 1.6@ 1.920 and it would go higher but I went with a RDram MB. I like the memory bandwidth. Just got my Gainward Golden Sample 4400 and 95xx in 3DMark2001SE is pretty dang good I think.

 

 

Oh just for shits and giggles I fired up my original install of Quake. Yes Quake 1 the original and it seems the timedemo just can't go any faster that 457 fps Run time 2.1 seconds talk about a blur!!

 

Current system

 

Asus P4T-E

Northwood P4 1.6 @ 120x16=1920(stock HoF)Just got a Volcano 7+

512 meg Samsung RDram

using all 4 USB ports

Mouse,Joystick,Platronics Headset,and Belkin UBS

Linksys 10/100 connected to a Netgeat RT311 on DSL

Gainward Gold Sample 4400

G90fb 19" and a noname 17" monitor

SBLive

80 gig Mator

40 gig IBM

Toshiba 6x DVD

Liteon 24x burner

Antec SX-1030B SOHO file server chassis, with 300 Watt ATX SmartPower.

XP Pro

 

Just thought I would throw in my 2 cents worth.

 

I Admin a 160 users 4 locations Wan/Lan.

[SHS 0]

Well if ask me after building my frist AMD with Abit KT7E with a 1400MHz CPU am not happy with it so far, It giving me hell with my WinTV-PVR and few other thing but for most part it dose good job with lot other things but if you where ask me I think no the AMD CPU more like some chipset name lee VIA that the major problem not have full x86 compatible like it should.

Need lee to say I be getting Intel P4 now one thing I will not do ise give up my WinTV-PVR I love recording TV show with this card in Realtime Hardware MPEG2 Encoding which very hard to do in RealTime Soft Encoding at 704or720x480(NTSC) MPEG2 8MBit/sec VBR.

[sapiens74 0]

It actually says in the Wintv manual not to use a non Intel chipset..

 

 

Good words to live by

[SHS 0]

I know sapiens74 but I had try any way so I can get be better idea on helping other when they ask questions why this why that, After talk to same other it seem that ATI also has the same video tearing problem.

You know it real funny that ALi and SiS seem to be more compatible then VIA.

I have any old AMD K6-2 500MHz 3DNow with GigaByte GA-5AX ver 3.0 motherboard with ALi chipset that somebody give me a few months back it work just fine with a WinTV card.

[JP- 0]

Yup, TV cards always seem to have bits in the manual saying something like "this card has problems with via chipsets...etc".

 

Tis a shame really because its at the stage where i wont build amd systems for anyone any more because they are such a pain to support if they run into problems and its really not worth the time any more. Ill just get them to spend a bit more and have no problems later

[uboofer 0]

I think that AMD makes a great chip and is well worth the money but, AMD still has a few compatability issues and they run extremely hot. If your heat sink fan stops you have a real problem on your hands and will probably have to by a new processor. With Intels new technology It will protect your processor much better.

 

The Via chipset is grave digger for any processor in my opinion and I always look for a more mainstream chipset for my motherboards. I have had a couple of different chipsets and I find that Intels are easier to install and are supported by most OS's better. The chances of having to install other drivers are less with Intel than any other and are very stable for the most part.

 

Pentium 4 1.8

MSI Pro 5 6545 motherboard, on-board sound disabled.

256mb 800mhz rambus

40gb WD 7200rpm HDD

GeForce 2 ultra 64mb ddr

3com 905c nic

Soundblaster live!

12x10x32 Imation CDRW

Toshiba 16x DVD player

Win XP Pro

[CyberGenX 0]

It's funny how some people can put a machine together and it runs great and other can get it to work at all. Whether it be Intel or AMD on ANY chipset I rarely have any problem that takes more than 5 minutes to solve. No one seems to blame 2 huge factors in your systems stability and performance, the user and the OS. Windows is not perfect or will ever be, same with the user. Windows requires more patches and drivers to run stable than ANY piece of hardware out there. I never once heard of VIA or AMD chips crashing LinuX or Unix. Good old WIntel, MS is not in bed with AMD, so why optimize an OS for them.

[Alien 1]

Quote:

It's funny how some people can put a machine together and it runs great and other can get it to work at all. Whether it be Intel or AMD on ANY chipset I rarely have any problem that takes more than 5 minutes to solve. No one seems to blame 2 huge factors in your systems stability and performance, the user and the OS. Windows is not perfect or will ever be, same with the user.

LOL, yeah - it's surprising how many problems turn out to really be PEBCAK issues, or 1D10T errors.

Note: I've been guilty of this a few times myself, & probably will again.

[sapiens74 0]

Idiot users are the cause of a lot of it. But VIA chipsets suck. Thats why Highly paid Pro's usually stick with INtel and not a cheap ripoff.

[sapiens74 0]

I can fix almost anything. But the fact is an AMD machine takes 3 times more work to maintain and setup then an INtel one. From Putting on the heatsink, to bioses, 4 in 1 drivers, or whatever else, they are a pain in the ***. And sometimes it cannot be fixed. like the VIa problems with the SB live. You just have to hope all your stuff is going to work right, or go with INTEL when you KNOW it will

[CyberGenX 0]

Quote:

Originally posted by sapiens74
...AMD machine takes 3 times more work to maintain and setup then an INtel one. From Putting on the heatsink, to bioses, 4 in 1 drivers, or whatever else, ...

First of all you have to put a heatsink on any Processor, some of us choose to overclock our cpus (not over clock the BUS) so we use bigger better heatsinks. If Intel's chips were not multiplier locked you would do the same thing. 2nd, BIOS flashes are common place in both Intel and AMD based boards, they are not usually necessary unless you have problems with specific hardware components. Some of us like to keep our BIOSes up to date regardless. 3rd, Intel Provides drivers just like AMD, VIA, ALI and SIS.

So how is it taking 3 times longer, let's see that would be about 9 hours or so given the average computer takes about 2.5 hours from build to complete OS load. To some, I guess double clicking on a driver executable is too much of a problem. If VIA chips suck so bad than why are they the number 2 chip maker instead of ALi or SIS?

[sapiens74 0]

Kia sells a lot of cars, does that mean they are high quality?

 

Your right I mean we all know VIA has the same quality as INtel, that's why so many large companies use VIa based systems now.

 

VIA sucks plain and simple. If you want to use a shitty chipset be my guest.

 

If it was a s easy as installing drivers, then it wouldnt be an issue. It's when you install the right drivers and Bios and heatsink, and tweak your settings, and you still geting ****ing BSOD's for no apparent reason till 3 months later a "fix" is issued, or an "A" version of a chipset is released making your board not only obsolete but one that doesn't function right.

[CyberGenX 0]

Wow I am glad I never had any of those problems on any of my VIA boards even the 686B chip didn't hassle my SB Live at all. It really boils down to the MB Manufacturer and their level of quality, quality in components and process, perhaps you had poor cheap boards in your machines. I can name just as many crappy P3 and P4 boards as you can name socket A boards.

[pmistry 0]

I have a VIA based board right now, the Asus K7V, and quite frankly it works fine. I had a VIA based board on an Abit KA7-100 which crapped out on me and gave me fits with hardware incompatibility. So I agree, that motherboard manufacturers can make the difference in how good a chipset is used. Clearly here the Asus make is better than the Abit.

 

Intel chipsets are good, I have an old Pentium that uses the 430VX and it is rock solid running Windows 95 or Windows 98. The same goes for my uncles 440BX Asus Board, damn that thing is REAL stable.

 

Although my next PC I am going with either an SIS or Intel chipset with an Intel Processor. I like to try different things, I really want to give SIS a try. I may try out an AMD XP processor with AMD chipset too, but I wanna try Intel next again.

[sapiens74 0]

I have had every Via chipset from the Kt133 through the KT266A, and they all had some sorty of issue, whether it be USB, or the SBlive issue, or not being able to run at AGP 4x.

 

It's always something

[CyberGenX 0]

Those chips do appear on the low end crappy boards too you know. Stop blaming one component when their are 1000s of others on the board. A cheap voltage regulator purchased by the MB maker can cause all sorts of problems and that's just one example. Intel boards are by no means perfect, they have had issues as well. Everyone is so quick to say VIA/AMD suck when an issue pops up, but when Intel has issues it is OK?

[sapiens74 0]

You know your argument is like an owner of a Ford Explorer with defective Firestone tires saying "Well I've never had any problem with mine"

 

Your ignoring the others that are. And they arent all idiots. ANd Intel chipsets don't have issues like the VIA ones. Like I said I get paid a lot of money for tech issues, and those who are my peers agree, even those who run AMD at home, that VIA is a second class compnay. PERIOD!

[CyberGenX 0]

First of all there is a huge difference between tires and chipsets. My chipset in not in danger of killing me or my family. Bottom line is I paid less for a chip and board that far out performs Intel chips of the same speed with the same stability as any of my Intel based machines. I still have money left for important things like food and bills. Wow! I get paid a lot of money to be a tech too, big deal. My peers are real, some like Intel some like AMD, there is no huge army anywhere waving big "intel rules" signs around here. Intel chips and chipset have issues as well...

 

Ok then let's talk issues:

 

Issue #1 Pentium® 4 Processors (not MB)

Video Card Issues - Blue Screen and No Boot

 

Experiencing blue screen problems using Windows* 2000?

Consider upgrading your video card driver to the most recent. We have seen some instances where new drivers were required to handle the increased speed and performance of the Pentium® 4 processors.

 

Experiencing no boot issues?

In some cases, we’ve seen this caused by older video drivers, causing some conflicts, when an Adaptec* SCSI controller card is installed. Recommendation is to upgrade your video card driver to the most recent

 

Sounds like a snow job to me?

 

Issue #2 Pentium® 4 Processor (not MB)

"CPU Is Unworkable Or Has Changed" Message During Boot

 

Some Pentium® 4 processor motherboards were designed when the Pentium 4 processor was first released at 1.4 and 1.5 GHz. Since then, faster Pentium 4 processors have been introduced and the BIOS must be updated so that it can recognize the faster processor. Therefore, to correct this problem, contact your motherboard manufacturer to get the newest BIOS update

 

Hmmm need BIOS updates?

 

Issue #3 Pentium® 4 Processors (not MB)

Windows NT* Users

 

Service Pack 4

If you are using Windows NT* with service pack 4, then you will need to download and install the Intel® Streaming SIMD Extensions driver to take advantage of SSE2.

 

More downloading if you are NT4.0 user!

 

Issue #4 Why Intel canned their Timna processor.

 

It turns out that ICH2 has an issue that only manifests with the i850 and i860 MCHs. Certain PCI cards run into a problem with certain commands that pre-fetch data from memory. Sometimes ICH2 will not invalidate pre-fetched data when it should. The issue is due to the interaction between the MCH and ICH2.

 

Issue #5 MEMORY as in the noise problems three RIMM RDRAM solutions ran into when Intel initially launched their i820 chipset

 

or the MTH issue Intel ran into, also related to RDRAM.

 

Hmmm... Intel is so quiet about issues.

 

Issue#6 Severe Interoperability Problems with Intel Chipsets: How to Fry Your i845 Motherboard

 

Video Cards that may FRY your i845 chipset MB

 

ATI Rage Fury Maxx - Rage 128 pro

Elsa Erazor III (100 ohms)

Hercules 3D Prophet 4500

SIS 305 32MB

Diamond Viper II z200 Savage 2000

Diamond Viper v770

VideoLogic Vivid! XS (Kyro II)

 

 

Well well chipset and CPU problems shall I go on?

and sure you could dig up VIA problems but does that make your problems go away? They do exist! PERIOD!

[clutch 1]

I am not going point for point on all the parts you listed, but the first one that drew my attention was (probably because I skimmed it) the last point you made about the video cards. This was *intentional* as the new boards are dropping support for the older voltage rail on those AGP cards. So, that isn't a problem at all. We also covered the MTH issue (the chipset was initially designed to support SDRAM, not RDRAM and Intel footed the bill to not only remove the faulty component but to also replace the SDRAM with RDRAM at no additional cost) previously, and the driver references that you speak of are basic as opposed to the ones that I usually mention. I have seen ones that enable "suspend" and "hibernate" even though these are things that have been working solidly since the release of Windows ME/2K (up to 2 years before the motherboard with the chipset) when they *should* have been working out of the box with these features. Oh, and if you are going bring up anything about NT4, you might want to remember how old that OS is and pretty much any new feature in hardware will require the use of a service pack (which they stopped shipping at SP6a). So yes, there is a big difference between the performance of Intel and Via with respect to chipsets, whether you know it or not.

[SHS 0]

sapiens74 you want quality car with high milesage there only two I know of Volvo and Toyota that are up to this task.

[sapiens74 0]

I own a Toyota.

 

I also own an INtel based system.

 

Both are known for reliability.

[sapiens74 0]

I used to make the same points you make Gen. But when you support PC's in an enterprise situation you begin to realize how much stabilty and reliability are important.

 

Neither of which VIA has shown they can do.

 

As to all those so called issues you pointed out, you know one person I sold an 820 MB ever had issues like BSOD but INTEL recalled it to be safe. VIA has been producing crap for years and instead of recalling thier faulty products like the kt266 chips they add an "A" to the chipset and make you buy a whole new board, with all "new" features ........

 

like working USB.

[SHS 0]

You got very good point there sapiens74, I belive this what I'am going to be getting next week Intel D845WN motherboard I know for sure it going to be a Intel P4 1.6GHz yes it SDRAM motherboard.