Game over, MS / XP wins!

[SnapperOne 0]

From the recent posts on XP, it appears MS has bought everybody off with game compatibility, stability, etc....as a means of pushing product activation down everyone's throat.

 

If everyone is prepared to trade off control of their computer so they can play some lousy game,......... game over, MS wins! Might as well get ready for them to start renting you your OS on a monthly basis. Don't think they'll try! Well, if you're old enough to remember Key Disks, Restricted number of installs, Copy protection, etc........renting you your own OS might not seem so far fetched.

 

Remember, "It's not that you're paranoid, it's that you're not paranoid enough" - ananymous

[Netslayer2k1 0]

Windows XP is the best operating system to come around, i have used Windows 2000 a whole lot (Still love it) but it lacks a lot of stuff in XP, 98/ME stink, Linux (Mandrake 8) is stable, cool but doesnt support windows stuff(unless u can get an emulator to run:-<), that leaves us to the point, the industry needs a new os for home users, Windows XP fills the gap, i know what your saying about the activation, i think its the stupidest thing ever, but still its worth going through and even cracking if u change your system a lot. Basicaly this gets back to the monopoly, Microsoft is the only company that makes an operating system that meets the needs that the everday user and the advanced user can use with compatibility and thats why we will all eventually get to XP. It's like windows 98, who still runs windows 95? ;( unless they think it meets what they need and never need to upgrade anything. ... this can go on forever, thats just my opinion, hate Product activation and any subscriptions or whatever but forced to do whatever they say cause its worth it for a wicked os.

[SnapperOne 0]

Netslayer2k1..........an old joke, but it seems to apply

 

*******

An unemployed man goes to try for a job with Microsoft as a janitor. The manager there arranges for an aptitude test. After the test, the manager says, "You'll be hired at a salary of $30 per day, let me have your e-mail address so I can send you a form to complete, and tell you where to report for work each day."

 

Taken aback, the umemployed man states that he is neither in possession of a computer nor of an e-mail address. To this the MS manager replies, "Well then, that means that you virtually don't exist and therefore cannot expect to be employed".

 

Stunned, the man leaves. Not knowing where to turn and only having about $10 to his name, he decides to buy a 10.lb box of tomatoes. In less than 2 hours, he sells the tomatoes, singly, at a 100% profit. Repeating the process several times more that day, he ends up with almost $100; and thus, it occurs to the man that he could quite easily make a living selling tomatoes.

 

Eventually he multiplies his profits many-fold in quite a short time. Not long thereafter, he acquires a cart to transport several dozen boxes of tomatoes, only to have to trade it in again for a pickup truck. And, by the end of the second year, he is the owner of a fleet of pickup trucks, managing a staff of a hundred formerly unemployed people, all selling tomatoes.

 

Considering the future of his family, he decides to buy some life insurance; and, calling an insurance agent, he picks an insurance policy to fit his new circumstances. At the end of the telephone conversation, the agent asks for the man's e-mail address in order that he might forward the documentation. When the man replies that he has no e-mail address, the agent is stunned saying, "What, you don't have e-mail?" "How on earth have you managed to amass such wealth without the Internet, e-mail or e-commerce?" "Just imagine where you would have been by now if you had been connected from the very start."

 

After a moment's pause, the man, now a millionaire replied, "Well, I would have been a janitor at Microsoft!"

 

The morals of this story:

v

v

v

v

v

1. The internet, e-mail and e-commerce do not need to rule your life.

 

2. If you don't have e-mail, but work hard, you can still become a millionaire.

 

3. Seeing that you got this story via e-mail, you're probably closer to becoming a janitor than you think you are. And..........the biggie

 

4. If you have a computer and e-mail, you've already been screwed by Microsoft at least once; and, if you allow Microsoft to paint you into an ever decreasing "box of options", you will continue to be screwed by MS as often as MS can arrange it!

 

SnapperOne

[Brian Frank 0]

If PA didn't have a cap on how much hardware you could change every so often, I probably wouldn't mind it as much. However, I do not like being told how much and how often I can change MY computer. It just seems suspicious, IMO. If you have more than 2 activations on-line, I'm thinking at least 10, I can live with that, however, I don't think MS is going to do that.

On one website (I forget which one) they mentioned how PA could be a pain in the neck for review rigs, where parts are frequently swapped out and the OS reinstalled. Unless they get there hands on a legal copy of a corporate version of XP, sites may not be using it much for reviews. I could be wrong, as I've seen Anandtech using it lately, however, this could be the exception to the rule.

XP is good, I agree, but I don't feel it's good enough to replace 2k on my rigs.

[EM 0]

Even for people doing reviews there should be no problem with WPA. You have at least 14 days after you install XP to actovate it and that should be plenty of time to get any testing done for a review. A clean install is recommended for any machine under review anyway.

 

 

Don't take this as an endorsement on my part of WPA because I agree that it is a major pita for those of us who change things constantly in our PC's.

[Brian Frank 0]

PA is a good idea gone terribly wrong. I wonder if the designer's of it were influenced by something. Greed, drugs, booze... ;(

[MasterVadered 0]

Hate WPA, but it's here to stay I'm afraid to say. A person always has the choice to either buy it or not. If another OS works for you, go for it. If a person has just a little computer savoy, the WPA is no problem at all. Right? Doe'nt exist on my machine for some reason. No matter how much you hate WPA, you have to admit XP is the best OS out there.

[SnapperOne 0]

MasterVadered........

 

Can't say I agree or disagree about XP being the best of anything, since I haven't tried it. As for being computer savy so you can hack around MS's bullsh_t, why should you have to?

 

But you are, of course, correct (to a point) about not having to use XP if you don't like it! That is until your software is no longer supported and you have to use XP simply so you can buy mainstream software.

 

Unfortunately, while your positive comments about XP's features are interesting, as soon as you get into a discussion with MS about how much (and lets' call it what it is) copy protection is acceptable, "Game over, MS wins!". Your position should be that no amount of copy protection is acceptable.

 

As the old saying goes, once the camel get its' nose under the tent, it's going to be pretty hard to get the son of a ***** out of the tent.

 

And by the way (and this is not meant as a slam about your computer abilities), do you really think you can, forever, find ways of hacking around MS's copy protection if they decide they don't want you to?

 

SnapperOne

[MasterVadered 0]

Trust me, I hate WPA, but I'm also a realist. Its here, there is nothing any of us can do about it, and yes as long as there are millions of 16-20 year old hackers that are beter programers than MS programers we will always have a crack. MS programers are focused on one program. Hackers love them all.

[oaydin 0]

SnapperOne, great story

tells me much...

we r wasting out so much time with OS thing ,

it's more than hobby

computers are using us

[Amon^Ra 0]

and yes as long as there are millions of 16-20 year old hackers that are beter programers than MS programers we will always have a crack

 

um couple of things wrong with that.

yes there are millions of teenagers etc hackin ms software.

but better programers

um

dont think so.

able 2 use astalavista.box.sk

thats probably more like it

[MasterVadered 0]

Hey, know programers dude. Gotta trust me on that one.

[Gambler FEX online 0]

If microsoft pushes something at us with windows, all we can do is accept. Where else can we go? All my games and programs only exist for windows, i.e I dont have a choice.

 

If MS desides people have to rent their OS on a monthly basis, all I can then do is comply and pay that montly fee. What choise do I have? none.

 

I guess hopefully linux will take off enough that games and programs will be equal supported on both platforms. I really like XP but the WPA might be te beginning of something very bad, and in the end we dont know how far microsoft might go and linux might be our only hope.

 

Yes I advise everybody to crack their XP when they buy it and not let microsoft know their hardware. WPA is wrong.

[Brian Frank 0]

Linux is not the only alternate OS out their. You have the Mac, specifically OS X (I know we've got some anti-Mac ppl here) as it's based on Unix, BSD--which I have downloaded and am going to run shortly. BeOS, Solaris, and of course Unix are also options.

 

Another option, which I favor, is stick with Win2k or 98, and give XP the finger. There is not enough "features" IMO to justify $300 for a purty GUI, because that's what it amounts to for me. I know there is new stuff, but my Win2k setup works, and it works well.

[OLEerror 0]

It's always nice to see that everyone actually has some inkling of what they are talking about before they post. Oh, nevermind, wrong thread. Most of the posts here show that many of you know jack about how Product Activation works. Instead, you've been spending your time reading ZDNet articles and taking them as fact. My advice, look into a subject before you start preaching about it.

 

First, do any of you actually have a real arguement against WPA? I mean really. Why should a software company not be able to protect its products?

 

"It's a hassle." It takes absolutely no effort on your part.

 

"Microsoft is gathering info about me." It's completely anonymous. The hash code that is created is non-reversible. There will be thousands of computers that have the exact same hash code. How are they gathering any information about you or your computer?

 

"It limits my ability to upgrade my computer." How many of you actually remove more than 4 components from your computer in a 120 day period? Yeah, everyone changes their NIC daily. If you're so worried about this, just activate your computer at a minimal configuration. After 120 days your registration is reset, so you can swap even more. And Microsoft is also planning to add a "deactivation". This way, you can deactivate your installation and move it to another system. Or completely re-fit your existing one. It just didn't get completed in time to be included in XP.

 

All of the arguements really come down to "I'm a sheep. I'll argue against anything Microsoft does." I haven't heard anyone whining about Quicken's activation process. And it's a pain in the a$$. I haven't heard anyone b!tching about AOL's constant price hikes or anti-competitive actions. Next to AOL, Microsoft looks friendly.

 

SnapperOne has even said he's never used Windows XP. And here he is spouting off against it. Friggin brilliant. You really may want to consider researching something before you go on about it. I'm sorry you'll have to look beyond your **** sites to do that.

 

As for the various cracks, go ahead and use them. So far, every one of them has been created by pulling files from Windows 2000. This cripples parts of the OS, and tends to make it unstable. There are a large number of APIs in WinXP that aren't in Win2k.

[Mooxooh 0]

"It's completely anonymous. The hash code that is created is non-reversible. There will be thousands of computers that have the exact same hash code. How are they gathering any information about you or your computer?"

 

How do you know that? Microsoft told you so? Are you a super-decrypter? When activating Windows XP by phone you see the hash code which is "non reversible" in your opinion. Is there an evidence that it is non reversible? When activating Windows XP over the internet, the transmitted data is encrypted. How do you know that they transmit the same, "non-reversible" hash code as when you activate it by phone? How do you know that they don't transmit some extra information? If the hash code is "non-reversible" and doesn't tell anything about your computer or something there's obviously no need to encrypt the transmission. Why is it encrypted?

 

 

"I haven't heard anyone b!tching about AOL's constant price hikes or anti-competitive actions. Next to AOL, Microsoft looks friendly."

 

Very simple, i think you could answer on your own why nobody "*****es" about AOL; they are just not market dominating. I think also in God's own country it is no trouble to chose another isp than AOL. Quite different with MS Windows; also outside the above mentioned country MS Office documents are a "standard" format used by the working masses - try reading them on a Unix box (It works, but thats a real hassle). Especially important , most games don't run on *set non MS OS here*. Therefore one can say that MS OS are a "defacto standard" and therefore MS *IS* market dominant.

 

 

"SnapperOne has even said he's never used Windows XP. And here he is spouting off against it. Friggin brilliant. You really may want to consider researching something before you go on about it. I'm sorry you'll have to look beyond your **** sites to do that."

 

This is just the worst possible argument one can use.

(Just for the case you don't know why: Humans have the ability to make an opinion about something they actually do not use, just by gathering information from elsewhere about it. You surely don't need an example for that? How do you buy a car? Don't you have a opinion about that car before you buy it?)

 

 

"Why should a software company not be able to protect its products?"

 

Of course should they be able to protect their products. But, in every civilized society privacy is a much higher valued right than prevention of copyright abuse. And copyright can be protected in various ways, i know a lot of company's delivering software which is protected in various ways *without* threatening my right for privacy.

 

 

"Next to AOL, Microsoft looks friendly."

 

AOL is just an internet provider. (IMO a bad one, but how can i say that, never used it )

Microsoft is an OS manufacturer, an application software manufacturer, an internet provider, a company that realy likes gathering information of any kind (passport), also they have something to do with tv (msnbc) and they try to get into mobile phones and digital tv.

Yeah, the friendly Big Brother, huh ;(

 

 

IMO you are the one who doesn't get the big picture, there is not only wpa, there's a rather large company trying to intrude your privacy where it can do so, and only the least critical person doesn't try to protect herself.

 

 

"I'm a sheep. I'll argue against anything Microsoft does."

Ok, if you want to do so. I do not so, because i actually like some things they made (Windows 2000, Mechwarrior 4 just for an example), but i argue against anything undermining my rights. And if i go to a shop and spend some money to get a license which entitles me to use a precious piece of software, i'm surely not going to ask the "friendly looking" MS corp. 'may i please use the software for which i have already paid??' because i already have the legal right to use that software.

[BladeRunner 0]

You have NO RIGHTS when you purchase an MS operating System.

If you would take the time to read through the license agreement you agreed to by installing a MS OS you'll know this.

 

OLEerror actually has the correct idea here and by the looks of things has actually taken the time to test and research this issue rather than just joining in with the "I hate MS, wah wah wah" crew.

 

Product Activation is annonymous, PA & Registering your product are two entirely different processes.

 

Reviews will not have any problems with WinXP as you can use it for 30 days WITHOUT activating the product, serious reviewers will simply never register their product.

 

"How do you buy a car? Don't you have a opinion about that car before you buy it?"

 

No, you take it for a test drive, you go and see the car in question.

If you buy a car just from what a magazine says about it, then you've got more money than sense.

[DosFreak 2]

You people are forgetting several things:

 

Clock battery dies. Clock acts funky.

CMOS is cleared. Time reset.

Virus that modifies time values for XP's that have no been activated. Disables activation procedure.

Having to set the clock back/forward to circumvent trialware programs, to test programs that you have created, to test expiration of certain products.

 

 

The world is not perfect. There are ALOT of people who do these things. ALOT of people who do not have perfect computers with cable connections and no internet problems.

 

PA is NOT anonymous. Any data sent from your computer can be traced back to your computer.

 

oh and I LOVE this statement "Reviews will not have any problems with WinXP as you can use it for 30 days WITHOUT activating the product, serious reviewers will simply never register their product."

 

SERIOUS Reviewers will be using OEM/SELECT versions. Therefore no problem.

[Mooxooh 0]

"You have NO RIGHTS when you purchase an MS operating System.

If you would take the time to read through the license agreement you agreed to by installing a MS OS you'll know this."

 

Hm, i'm not really the grandmaster of law, but it's obvious that the above statement is senseless:

1. In what way a software s.o. licenses is allowed to use is absolutely not defined by the software manufacturer, but by the legislation of the country you live in.

2. In the country i live in, a treaty has to be accepted before s.o. purchases or licenses a product. A license agreement is a treaty, and therefore i need to see it before i buy the product. When i last purchased a MS OS there was no treaty printed on the box. A license "agreement" which is displayed during instalation of a software ( *after* paying to use it ) is void.

3. I read no long, void and useless popup messages.

 

(funny idea though; you buy a car and sign a treaty which says something about that you are now the owner of that car, warranties etc - all fine. After you paid you enter your new car and a message pops up on the display of your onboard-computer: "you are not allowed to borrow this car to a friend, you have to call Mercedes-Benz to be allowed to start your vehicle for the first time, if you attach a new exhaust thingy or if you change the tires you need to call again )

 

 

"OLEerror actually has the correct idea here and by the looks of things has actually taken the time to test and research this issue rather than just joining in with the "I hate MS, wah wah wah" crew."

 

I don't think that i'm a member of the "I hate MS, wah wah wah" crew." ( cool expression though )

 

 

"Product Activation is annonymous, PA & Registering your product are two entirely different processes."

 

I didn't say anything about registration but only about wpa. Please don't mix them up.

[Dirty Harry 0]

The issue is really that MS is a monopoly, not because of regulation but because it has become the standard, and with PC's everybody needs a standard. At least in practice they are a monopoly, if we forget the zeropointsomething market share for desktops running linux and really using it for something. Nevermind how fair it is that MS got there, now they are a monopoly nevertheless. How much should MS be able to exploit their natural monopoly do you think ?

 

We can already see the writing on the wall; sooner rather than later you'll have to connect to MS everytime you use their software (all completely painless of course... then maybe you can't have certain hardware anymore (sorry, only Intel CPU:s and MS mice generate the appropriate code...then you'll have to pay for every usage (very minimal fee of course, but we do need your VISA number), then perhaps you'll have to submit some anonymous demographic data...then... the possibilities are endless as soon as the customer finds it perfectly normal to connect to big brother.

 

The issue is really simple, you buy a product - why should you afterwards be obliged to send anything, anytime to the seller? And how often should you be obliged to do so, once a year, once a week, what ? Oh, poor seller, they have to protect themselves against pirated copies. I don't find PA to be an acceptable way of dealing with this legitimate concern.

 

What other product do you buy where you are forced to sign an "agreement" limiting your ownership rights and have to send data to the producer based on other products you own ? For some reason the software industry (read MS) is judged on a different standard that others.

 

- If you buy a book (copyrigted) you can lend it to a friend or sell it as you please. You think you'll be able to call the PA center and tell'em you just borrowed this copy of Office XP from a guy who isn't using it right now as he is on vacation ? I've also understood that PA will not let you use the same copy on two machines (laptop/desktop). Why would this be wrong ?

 

-Can you imagine buying a video tape or music CD which wouldn't work unless you send in an anonymous "activation" containing some VCR (CD player generated code making sure it won't work on any other device?

 

- A lot of software (all MS) is already using extraordinary measures to limit your rights, even before PA. If you buy a car and the car is defect, say it stops running (for various petty reasons, sometimes even including own stupidity) every know and then, the producer would have to fix the product to work reliably or give you a refund. Try to return a two week old, tested copy of Windows... Heck, even when it's as silly as the external mirrors showing things to be further away than they really are, the car producer got sued and had to pay damages and the whole industry had to alter all future products. (Ford motor Co. / "Objects in this mirror are closer...) So lets say you manage to destroy your RAID array when installing XP, mmm.. lots of cash on you account and all future copies of Windows carry the "objects on your harddrive are really far away now...sticker.

 

Am I paranoid? Propably, but I find the PA really doubtful and being only the first step of an "industry standard" that will seriously affect the basic privacy rights of the consumer.

 

H.

[Brian Frank 0]

I don't see anything XP offers me that I'll buy it for. PA--while, yes it can be cracked, I don't feel that you should have to go to this lengths to protect your privacy, especially since some peeps will get it legally and not via w4r3z.

Also, I'm a little hesitant to dive in as the last OS I jumped to that was supposedly so great was ME, which convinced me to go to Win2k. I've tested XP and it's not worth the time or money to me. Maybe other people, but it's more of a hassle than a reward.

 

MS can take PA and shove it where the sun don't shine.