NEED only the most intelligent and clever!!!

Ok people. We have all been suffering discrimination from the software and hardware companies because we are Win2k gamers.

This game won't run, that game won't run, that "new" rip *ss videocard and soundcard has broken or non-existent drivers.

We have the best gaming OS on the market today bar-none.

So why does a mega-company like EA still put out games like Superbike 2000, which is supposed to be the definitive bike game this year, and it won't get past the first loading screen.

Somebody who visits this site must have the education and programming experience to figure out how to get that game to run in Win2k.

The gauntlet is dropped. I will send anyone who can get this game to run on my system with full hardware acceleration, a money order for US$35.00. You have my guarantee on that. My ebay user id is: vburns@cancom.net , and if you check that in the feedback forum, you will see that I deliver on my obligations.

Good luck, and lets see what the forum members have got in their repertoire.

:-)

Win2000 is not supposed to be a 100% gaming platform. Win98 is the Gaming platform due to be replaced by Win Millenium. Win2000 is a replacement for NT4.0 a workstation not gaming platform. You should be lucky win2000 supports as many games as it does.


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Volitaire
A+, MCSE, MCP+I, ACT

Okay, based on what you said. Then answer me this question wise guy. Why is the X-Box using Windows 2000???? You can't answer that can you.

They didn't know Win 2K was going to be this BIG and popular. So they say It's a business platform so that it doesn't cut in on theirs sales of ME and 98SE. It's marketing strategy to swallow up as many buyers as they can. Well, I'm not fooled, I want the best and that's Windows 2000. PERIOD!

what MS is doing is making all their OS the same with some having more features like 8-way smp and more backend services. but they share other features like the TCP/IP stack and the important part for gamers Direct X. there is no reason why win2k cant be just as good as winME. You have to turn off some background services to get more resources but other then that the only diff is the support from hardware vendors.

Win2k was never designed to be a gaming OS, but the did discover that people liked having an OS that didn't crash all of the time. They implemented DX7 among other things to satisfy the gamer. I don't know why they are keeping the 9x kernel alive, i think they just want to make a cheap os that the novice consumer will buy, poor novice consumer, if they just did away with the 9x kernel all together, there wouldn't be newbie questions like: "What does Illegal Operation mean?"...How is a newbie supposed to understand that his/her operating system is a piece of crap and that there is no way to keep it from crashing, i mean, i've had win98 crash just from minimizing an app for god's sake. whenever i first used win95, i though something was wrong with it, i didn't know that it was supposed to do that. I reinstalled it 5 times before i found out that i wasn't the only one. Sorry if i'm rambling but i've heard too many questions about win9x crashing and i'm tired and i need sleep. So if what i just typed doesn't make any sense, i'm sorry, if thats not enough..b1ow me.

Thank you.
Have a Nice Day.

Attn: Admin

RE: Ban EddiE314

He posts crap just so he can say, "look I got lots of posts i must be cool." You warned him once now i think its time for action.

This debate is old. But Ill put in my 2 cents. Win2k is far more capable at running ANY 32 bit application then win9x. Problem is that the games werent designed to run with win2k. If they were they would smoke. Same thing with drivers..... I mean how well do expect a game that was written for win9x to work in win2k? Well some do but alot simply arent. I got win millenium on a dual boot and that thing absolutely smokes for games. But other than that its probobly the worst operating system Ive ever used. But I need it for my games. Bottom line is most people have win9x,, most gamers have win9x ( slowly declining ) and as long as this is so game developers are obviously going to optimize for win9x. This is common sense. And some games simply arent going to work. Ever. =)

Uhh okay wisguy.. where does it say X-Box is gonna use win2000?.. if it is it's a freaking PC isn't it?.. duhhhhh..... X-box is using direct-x API.. wanna know it's specs?
600 MHz x86 compatible CPU Custom 3-D NVIDIA graphics processor
64 MB of RAM (unified memory architecture)
Custom 3-D audio processor
8GB hard drive
4X DVD drive with movie playback
Four game controller ports
Expansion port
Proprietary A/V connector
100 MBps Ethernet

now.. if it is gonna run w2k as you say.. hmm.. letsee.. why buy a freaking x-box?.. i'll just build this system myself and copy over win2k and call it my J-Box..

now back to the topic, and the reason why w2k and Win9x are different in games and such is in how the memory is handled, win9x shares it all so if 1 crashs it can knock out the rest, win2k/NT assign each program it's own memory space that why when it crashes it'll only crash itself.
And WinNT/2k Use a HAL to prevent access from the software directly to the program so it's harder to crash and lots of other differences in the way it was designed to make games harder to run that were built around the 9x platform.

oh yeah Eddie rocks




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Volitaire
A+, MCSE, MCP+I, ACT

The X-BOX WILL use a stripped down version of W2K. I'll try to find the info again if I can.

------------------
C:\Dos
C:\Dos\Run
\Run\Dos\Run

Volitaire,

Go do some research on the X-box and you'll know.

I hardly doubt you'll be able to install your own OS on to the X-box, first and for most you'd have to boot from the DVD drive. Not hardly. I doubt Microsoft is going to let you be able to format the harddrive as you see fit. This is pure speculation, but I'd bet the house you wouldn't be able too.

To All,

Another thing, do you guys realize how POWERFUL the Nvidia chip is going to be on the X-box??? 300 MILLION polygons/sec!! Okay, lets see an SGI Onyx2 Rack System with 24 R10000 processors and Reality Monster Engine graphics (with 16 graphics pipes) does up to 210 Million Polys/sec. Oh and that system costs over a $1 Million. It seems inevitable that PC's will probably take over the graphics industry someday soon. Amazing.

Win2K is a Business Application OS. But the guys at Microsoft are working on a version of Win2k that is gamer oriented. "Neptune" is expected out in about a year, but it will be the Win2K kernal with gamers in mind.

Ok..first off to the guy who said about PCs taking over the grapics market. DUH!!! Look in any 3D art trade magazine and you will notice that the majority of the programs are made for PC's. SGI even started making PC workstations because they knew peolpe are not about to shell out the thosands of dollars to get a SGI chip.

Now, as for the win 2000 gaming market. I have to agree that micrsoft had NO idea how big 2000 would be. They did NOT make it for games. They are just know realizing how many peolpe are demanding more games to work for it. In their defence, they are not the ones who should deal with it. As more and more game companies realize how many people out there are using 2000 they will eventually start porting games for it. Unless of course you are the ignorant peolpe at Bleem! who say that 2000 can not do some stuff that 9X can do, thus why there is no 2000 support for their program. (morons).

I am going to just sit back and wait. Pretty soon (and i will bet that as soon as X-Box comes out this will be true) almost every game you buy will work on 2000. That will be a great time to be around. 2000 is definatally a superior OS, and as soon as game companies realize so, games will get better!

anywhoo, im prob just rambling now, so i will end my ranting now...

--Now inc.

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Now inc.
http://www.now-incorporated.com

The main reason Microsoft is not pushing windows as a gaming os is because much of the techincal support problems it would get would be games incompatibility with certain drivers/hardware combos etc.Regardless of how many people buy this os for games,the majority buy in bulk for corporate use and expect to be able to contact tech support when they need it and not be on hold while someone spends time trying to get thier latest games software to run.
The fact is games DO run well on it in most cases but it's a simple cop out clause for both Games companies and Microsoft not to have to deal with games incompatibilities that are inherant with any new os but just stating it was never inteded to be a games platform so all games software is unsupported.

Here's an idea r0ck0...Grow up.



[This message has been edited by EddiE314 (edited 22 April 2000).]

Boy how quick you all fotget about Windows95 v DOS
Guest how won 2 yrs later that rigth DX3 in Windows95b

Windows95 DX1
Windows95a DX2
Windows95b DX3
Windows95c DX3
Windows98 DX5
Windows98se DX6
Windows98ME DX7

WindowsNT4 DX1 "Apply the SP3 you get DX3"

Windows2000 DX7

Whistler DX8 "Whistler be better at support DX & Windows98ME is R.I.P"
Do all see the Big Pic here.
We said Widows95 was joke at DX at that time hehe.

(Volitaire)
Windows2000 is 100% gaming platform
the problem is developers do not want to implemented it.
Now that Microsoft remove LEGACY DOS code from Windows98ME this should get developers off the butt & start wirting real game code that reliar on LEGACY DOS code nor 16 bit code.

(ledzeppel)
Yes the X-Box is base on NT kernel.

(r0cko)
It will be r0cko this where Whistler come in

(EddiE314)
Dose backward compatible ring any bells ?,
Mine of us beta wanted MS to kill dos & 16bit
a long time ago & go pure 32bit OS back then
but hell no everybody just had to have DOS Support.

(A-guy)
Yes A-guy this debate is getting old.

(Rattrap)
sorry bud but Neptune R.I.P to

(Sledgehamster)
Bingo you nail rigth on nose hehe

50% of it drivers/hardware drivers & combos of other drivers etc,etc some games just need a patch.
Developers all ready starting ***** at Manufacturers about some of poor lee implemented DX7 drivers.

[This message has been edited by SHS (edited 22 April 2000).]

well SHS, you DO have a point, but i don't think we'll ever get a perfect OS unless most, if not all, legacy crap is dumped. I mean, i'd be happy to use a DOS emulator in an OS.

From My quick use of Whistler I can say that THAT OS is gonna f'n ROCK. Just the little changes they've made so far are quite nice.

I believe that there was a question as to whether or not the X-Box would use the NT Kernal (Win2K). Here is a link that may help clarify the situation:
http://pc.ign.com/news/18330.html

and here is another:
http://www.msxbox.com/faq.shtml

I think this should end the debate as to whether or not Win2K is a gaming OS.



------------------
Regards,

clutch

What Operating System will Power the X-Box?

Bill Gates has confirmed that an extremely stripped down Windows 2000 Kernel (500 K Size) will be the Operating System of the X-Box. He emphasized that the OS would not make the console's load times sluggish like a PCs. The X-Box will load as fast, if not faster than any other console currently available.

Seldzar, when's the expected release? What has been done so far that make Whistler better?

No idea on release date, the changes I've seen are purely cosmetic....

ctrl alt delete brings up task manger immediately(no windows security menu)
there is a user tab in task manager to see users loggon onto your pc.......there options to see the processes and resources used by the users. the shut down on the task bar is "Shut down computer" which brings up a 3 button box with shut down restart and cancel. Control panel is setup like Win Me.

It still says win2k everywhere.
The inital boot is much quicker the white bar that moves across the screen is there not even long enough for you to hit F8.

The task bar says "windows 2001" on it. Aside from that I couldn't see much different in the 30 minutes i played with it.

Using the Kernel is a lot different from Win2k OS.. They're using the Kernel because of the HAL, it'll prevent the programers from directly accessing the hardware. Unlike 9x where it's allowed. Just because They're using a "HIGHLY" modified version of w2k doesn't confirm w2k is for games. They way it's programmed is not meant for games. It's harder to do stuff. I know what i'm talking about. See the MCSE below my name? It's all in the training



------------------
Volitaire
A+, MCSE, MCP+I, ACT

yea, i saw lots of screenshots, are they doing away with the START menu in the gold version of Whistler, i heard the gui was supposed to be totally revamped

A simple question for Volitaire.

If win2k is *not* a gaming OS and Whistler is a point release on win2k and will be a gaming OS - ie there will be no more 9x. Isn't it fair to say then that win2k is in fact a gaming OS and that MS is just trying to bilk us out of one more lot of $150 for a superceded operating system? Or what other rationale can you put up that when Win-Me is still not in circulation and its replacement is less than a year away?

I wait with baited breath for your reply

"See the MCSE below my name? It's all in the training"


Bwuahahahahahahahahahahahaah!
DosFreaks wipes a tear from his eye.
That was great Volitaire...really best laugh I had all day.

Volitaire,

It may be harder to write code for the HAL, but I believe the benefits are reaped.

I would like to think that ME will be the last 9x kernel. I'm pretty much sick of it.

Voltaire:

"It's harder to do stuff. I know what i'm talking about."

Well, I guess I don't. I mean, at least during my MCSE classes, the term "It's harder to do stuff" never came up when talking about the HAL (Hardware Abstraction Layer-the thing that there seems to be a hang-up on). But, here is what I have gathered from classes and using these machines. It would seem that the only thing limiting NT for gaming was the lack of DX upgrades past DX3 and the fact that the OpenGL drivers were usually not so hot for games (insert MCD vs ICD discussion here :)). Seeing as in the DOS days people were programming to the hardware directly via the drivers you needed the direct access. The only problem was that you would have a ton of different hardware/driver combos that a machine could have. But with DX, you could just program to DX, and DX would work directly with the drivers. This way, a programmer would work with a common hardware interface that would work on many systems at one time. I mean think about it, Q3 works great in NT as long as you have SP3 or above (DX3) and a decent video card/driver set. And the main reason was the HAL was used was to prevent errant user mode processes from sucking the life out of the hardware resources with eternal crashing. This is why the NT4 executive loads the HAL in the first of its 5 load phases. I would think that with the X-Box using PC hardware it would use similar PC drivers and therefore be easily ported to the non-gaming Win2K OS.

------------------
Regards,

clutch

Win2k was meant to replace the 9X kernel OSes entirely, this was the plan until Beta2 of Win2k (NT5 build 1877) when they figured out how they didn't have enough time. Unfortunately they couldn't build in all the cool features and driver support that they wanted to in the time they had left before they needed to ship. MS missed their ship schedule by around a year trying to get 2000 totally perfect. This the reason for Whistler (as far as I can tell) is to try to get a the cool things they just didn't have time to implement in Win2k. WinME will be the last of the 9X kernel OSes, if for no other reason than its costing MS way too much to continue to develop and support the two different OSes.

I have yet to see anything from MS claiming that Win2k was designed for businesses only. Its true that Win2k wasn't primarily intended to be used for gaming, but I know that many incompatibility bugs with games were specifically targeted and fixed. MS makes far less off of individuals who are purchasing (or stealing it off the web...) Win2k for personal use, they're more concerned about having business systems up for 24x7 since there'll be far more companies actually purchasing it.

MS knows that Win2k is huge, they've placed the entire company's future on it. That's why it's so great.

So is whistler really that cool? I love Win2K. The only thing that has crshed it hard for me was PowerDVD (ver. 2.55). It did it once and that's been the only prob I have had in the last 2.5 months. Is whistler faster? Does it have more gadgets? What are we instore for in changes?

------------------
Regards,

clutch

go here:
http://www.winsupersite.com/


it give a little info on Windows Neptune and Whistler, not to mention WinME beta3