problem with my graphics drivers.. i think

im having trouble with my PC. im on windows XP SP2, i have a GeForce4 MX 440 with AGP8X, but when i install my drivers.. my PC crashes. if i dont have any drivers installed my PC works fine apart from all the usual stuff that happens cos u have no drivers. if i install any drivers, it works fine for a little bit, then my screen freezes and flickers on then off, and sometimes it doesnt work again until i shut off my PC by the power button at the front. this only sometimes happens when i use my PC for everyday things like the internet, but when i play my online game Final Fantasy XI, it always happens. id post a pic of what i mean but.. i dont see an attatch file button x.x;

i may have rambled so here it is in short >< without any drivers my PC works ok. when i install them, it crashes either when i play my game or just any time it likes. anyone know what this is? im stumped

Which drivers are you using?

ive used a ton of them and they all did the same thing, i tried the latest, i tried 44.03from may 2003, 45.23 from august 2003, 45.33 from october 2003, 53.04 from feb. 2004, and some others >< right now i have 71.89 from april 2005.. still getting the same problem

It may be any number of things including a bad card. But, what usually sets off nVidia drivers is that they interfere in the memory space of another process or program. This does not happen at first, but seemingly randomly the screen goes blank, blinks, and if you have the BSOD report it will tell you that there has been a memory conflict and it will point the finger at nv4_disp.dll. One method of stopping this is the following:

1. Click Start, click Control Panel, and then double-click Display.
2. On the Settings tab, click Advanced, and then click the Troubleshoot tab.
3. Move the Hardware Acceleration slider to None, and then click to clear the Enable Write Combining check box.
4. Click OK, and then click OK.

It doesn't always work. This is also called the nVidia infinite loop problem. To date no one seems to have a resolution for it. That having been said, when you load up your browser (since you seem to be able to trigger it going on the net), bring up your Task Manager (Ctrl-Shift-ESC), note the amount of memory being used. (Pay attention to those which use more than 20,000 bytes and those that grow by 10,000 to 30,000 more. Everytime you load a new page or whatever bring up the Task Manager and note the differences in programs. What could be happening is that some program or process grows to the point that the driver and the process exceed or conflict with each other for memory space. If the program is something like a popup blocker you could shut it down then bring it back up for it to release some memory and not have the machine crash.

Have you tried updating the chipset drivers for your mobo?

i tried what the poster 2 posts above this one said and it made it noticably worse x.x; and to the poster above >.> tell me what that is and ill try it lol

Originally posted by Diamondis:


What brand and version of motherboard are you using? You want to update the the AGP chipset drivers for the motherboard itself. Before I can attempt to help anymore, I need to know what motherboard you have.

Sorry, Diamondis, that the simpler things didn't work. Relic seems to think that it has something with the AGP chipset drivers. That may well be the problem. What I would ask you to do in the meantime is monitor the Task Manager. It only requires you to hit Ctrl-Shift and ESC to bring it up. What most people think that is happening is that another program or process interferes with the nvidia drivers and competes for a particular memory address. Just watch the progams that grow larger as you use your computer on the internet.

Motherboard Properties
Motherboard ID 08/12/2003-nVidia-nForce-6A61BM49C-00
Motherboard Name MSI K7N2 (MS-6570)

Front Side Bus Properties
Bus Type DEC Alpha EV6
Bus Width 64-bit
Real Clock 100 MHz (DDR)
Effective Clock 200 MHz
Bandwidth 1600 MB/s

Chipset Bus Properties
Bus Type HyperTransport v1.0
Bus Width 8-bit

Motherboard Physical Info
CPU Sockets/Slots 1
Expansion Slots 5 PCI, 1 AGP, 1 ACR
RAM Slots 3 DIMM
Integrated Devices Audio
Form Factor ATX
Motherboard Size 230 mm x 300 mm
Motherboard Chipset nForce2-SPP
Extra Features Fuzzy Logic 4

Motherboard Manufacturer
Company Name Micro-Star International
Product Information http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/mainboard/mbd/pro_mbd_list.php
BIOS Download http://www.msi.com.tw/program/support/bios/bos/spt_bos_list.php

that what u need? >.>;

ive been watching my task manager like u said, everything seems fine, nothings growing much.

Your chipset drivers can be found here: http://www.msi.com.tw/program/support/dr...age=2&num=0

You want this driver NVIDIA nForce2 System Drivers for MCP2 of SB. I don't know if this link will work for the download, but give it a whirl.

[url=javascript:void(window.open('/program/support/download/dld/spt_dld_file_record.php?folder=2&kind=1&name=NF2_MCP2.zip','open','width=550,height=250,scrollbars=yes,resizable=no'))]javascript:void(window.open('/program/support/download/dld/spt_dld_file_record.php?folder=2&kind=1&name=NF2_MCP2.zip','open','width=550,height=250,scrollbars=yes,resizable=no'))[/url]

I really doubt that link will work from here, you'll have to go to MSI's site.

the link worked ^^ and it installed fine, but my moniter still goes crazy and crashes when i install graphics drivers =(

Originally posted by Diamondis:


Something I forgot to ask: Did you just install the MX440, or was it already in your system? Did the problems start after installing SP2 for XP?

I do believe SP2 has DirectX 9c in it. Your card only supports DX8.1. Usually this is not a problem, the card will work, it just won't be able to use all the features of DX9. This could be different in your case.

Click "Start/Programs/Accessories/System Tools/System Information". In the new window, click "Tools" in the upper bar, then select "DirectX Diagnostic Tool". In the "System" tab, it will give you the version of DirectX that you have installed.

Contrary to what some say, DX9 can be removed, I've done it myself, so I know it works. Check your version and let us know what it is.

ok heres my history with this problem.. i had it once and didnt know what it was, i messed around with virus scanners and spyware scanners etc, and it just.. fixed itself so i thought it was a virus. about 6 months later, it started again, couldnt find any viruses etc, so i reformatted and it seemed to fix itself again. this time.. no virus.. so i reformatted, but this time it didnt fix itself, i noticed it didnt start until i installed the drivers.

the MX440 was in my PC when i bought it, but ive reformatted so im having to re-do the driver thing etc. about the SP2 thing.. im not sure, i seem to recall having this problem with SP1 but i may be mistaken, and i have D9X... and as ive been writing this reply my screen just flashed off and on.. when it came back on my settings had changed from 1024 x 768 to something like 640 x 480 >.>;;

oh no.. >< my screen is flickering again.. and i dont have any drivers installed!! except the one you gave me the link to im so confused

Well, I'm starting to think it's a hardware problem, not drivers. Possible causes, faulty RAM, faulty motherboard, or faulty vidcard.

I'd check the RAM first. You haven't said how much RAM you have in your system, but if it's more than one stick, pull the other and see if the problem goes away. If not, swap it for the other stick. I've had bad RAM cause all kinds of problems on my system, that could be the problem.

Too bad you can't scoop an AGP vidcard from another system and try in your system, or try your vidcard in another system.

Obviously this card worked fine with your system in the beginning, then things went downhill. We've basically ruled out a driver issue, so hardware is what's left. Try the RAM deal first, one bad stick can totally screw up your system.

i think i have 256MB of RAM, i only have one.. RAM.. thing.. <,< lol.. i have another PC that works fine, its has a different graphics card in it, think i should try that one in mine?

Oh yeah, if you have another AGP card that works fine, definitely try it in your system. Also, try the 440 in the other system. If both work in the other system, and neither work in the current system, it rules out the vidcard.

That would narrow the problem down to RAM or motherboard.

Let us know what happens.

my brother wouldnt let me use his card XD so i bought a new one, Nvidia GeForce 6200, i installed it, i havent seen my screen flicker yet >.> *touch wood* but my screen seems blurred and theres like.. little black squares in some of my screens

Originally posted by Diamondis:


Download these drivers: http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=1145

this utility: http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=911

and this utility: http://majorgeeks.com/Driver_Cleaner_Professional_d3214.html

Unzip the drivers, but don't install. Unzip NVTweak, but don't install. Unzip Driver Cleaner pro, but don't install.

Uninstall your old videocard drivers, preferable in safe mode. If at any time during the next couple reboots, Windoze wants to install drivers, select "Cancel". Reboot, into safe mode again, run Driver Cleaner pro. Reboot normally, install the drivers(77.77). Reboot, then install NVTweak.

NVTweak will give you extra settings for quality and performance in the nVidia control panel. DCPro will cleanup all your old driver garbage in the registry. The 77.77's are very stable drivers. Hope this fixes you up.

is it ok to install those drivers? >.> some drivers came with the new card and those are the ones i installed.

I've never used the drivers that come with the card, they're usually put of date, or just don't work all that well.

still got the little black squares in my icons and menus ^^;;;

Can you take a screenshot of the squares for us? You should have some sort of graphics program on your system, if nothing else, you have Paint, that'll do the trick.

i can yeah, but how do i post them?

it says youve replied relic but i cant see the reply XD

Originally posted by Diamondis:


It's lying to you, I'm just replying now.

You need webspace, then link to the pic. If you don't have webspace, send it to me, I'll post it.

and i send it to you how? XD sorry, new forum for me, my last one couldnt help and im used to their setup now XD

I'll send you my email addy, just check your private messages, the link is just below the message that says "Welcome Back Diamondis", right above "edit profile".

Okay, here we go, Diamondis pics, you can see the "anomolies" in the first pic very well, the second pic shows them a bit.

any idea what those things are? they occur in my online game too, my game doesnt crash anymore though so i guess it was my vid card :)oh, and since i installed the new card i keep getting "found new hardware: ethernet controller" >.> whats that?
[Edited by Diamondis on 2005-12-31 19:49:33]

Originally posted by Diamondis:


There's the possibilty that you knocked you ethernet card loose when you installed the vidcard, I'd just pull it and reseat it. If everything is working fine, go into your device manager and see if you now have two ethernet cards in there. If you do, remove the one with the exclamation mark beside it.

Out of curiousity, how hot does your system run? Have you checked it out in your BIOS? You should have a "System Health" area in there, or something similar, that will tell you how hot your CPU and system(read motherboard) are running.

What do you have for air circulation? You should have at least one intake, and two exhaust fans.

Check the temps and then post them in here. Sit in the BIOS watching the temps for 5 minutes or so, they're always lower when you first boot up.

i can only see 2 fans that i have, one on the back of my PC, and one on the new graphics card. i wated the temp in the BIOS for five minutes like u said, heres the temp:

system temp. at start: 30C 87F
CPU temp. at start: 40C 107F (these F's might be off ^^;; we use C in england)

system temp at finish: 33C 91F
CPU temp at finish: 47-51C 123F

oh and im still getting the ethernet controller thing >< i looked again, no cards were loose, and i looked in my divice manager and i only have 1 controller. do i need drivers for it or something? XD

Originally posted by Diamondis:


Okay, you only have one exhaust fan, and your system is running hot. My system sits here at 20C/68F for the system, 24.5C/76F for the CPU.

Another fan wouldn't hurt at all, I believe your vidcard is running even hotter, they always do. You can try pulling the sidepanel off your tower and sitting a household fan beside your system, just let it blow air on the vidcard(and everything else), and see if the graphics problem goes away.

Strange that your ethernet controller is just being found now, how are you connecting to the internet?

im linked to it by a wireless router from my brothers PC, i dont even know what the ethernet thing is XD lol im gonna A: try find my fan and B: open the side panels lol

ok i did the side panels and fan thing, my temps went down by 9 degrees C, but the problems still there ><

i just looked over the instructions, my brother installed the card first, i was getting alot of static electricity shocks that day and was scared to touch my new card XD anyway it says in the instructions "you MUST disable the integrated graphics first" ..now.. i know more about PC's than my brother, and i dont know if my PC has them or how to disale them, so he wont have done that step.. can u tell me how to find out if i have them, and if i do, disable them? that might be my problem x.x

You have onboard sound, but no onboard video, don't worry about it.

Last thing I can suggest is flashing the BIOS. Latest version is 4.1, top of the list. Instructions are included with the download in the zip file, but feel free to ask questions if you're not sure of something.

http://www.msi.com.tw/program/support/bios/bos/spt_bos_detail.php?UID=393&kind=1

so i just unzip and follow the instructions? >.> is there any risk by using this thing? my pc is old XD terrified of breaking it.

No problems with BIOS flashes, especially an AWARD BIOS, I've never had a problem. I've had a bad flash, as in it woulkd lock halfway through, and I'd have to reboot, which I was always told would kill your mobo.

Contrary to what I was told, the AWARD BIOS can be recovered from a bad flash, nothing to it, just start over. I've recovered from bad flashes on a DFI board, and a SOYO board, I just don't worry about it anymore. If you have a bad flash, just reboot and start the procedure over again, piece of cake.

I've also flashed the BIOS on my old Voodoo 3000 AGP, my ti4200, and my brand new eVGA 6600GT AGP. This is really no big deal.

Any problems, ask away.

One thing, write down the name of the bin file you will be flashing to, and of course the name of the flash.exe and have them handy once you get into the flash utility.

one thing >.>;; the instructions say things like save to a floppy.. the thing is my floppy drive stopped working for some reason a while back >< wasnt bothered since i use USB sticks but is that a problem?

Yes, you have to boot from the floppy to flash the BIOS.

I just tried something and had a minor success.. i turned my hardware acceleration down a little and the "anomalies" in the "My Computer" window went away, but the ones on my desktop stayed, i turned it down a little more and those went away but i went on google and there was white "anomalies" in the banner at the top, i turned it down all the way and all the anomalies went away.. but then i couldnt play my online game which is what i bought the new card for in the first place >< what is hardware acceleration?

U need to upgrade your memory or just chage the performance

If you turn off hardware acceleration, you're running on software, so what's the point of having a freakin vidcard in the first place?!?!?!

Seriously? Upgrade to a 6600GT AGP, DX9 support, and it will rock your world. With the 440 you will always be playing catch-up, and you never will.

I packed my ti4200 in, and it's a generation faster than that 440, time to retire the "old war-dog", let him sleep.

Sampson-
Thanks! This worked. How will the changes I made (described in your post) affect my computer?

This post is very valuable for me