[packman]

Is there a way of repairing Win2K? That's with SP4, incidentally. Is there some sort of repair function on the Win2K installation CD?

I ask because I've hit a brick wall with a driver problem - an Epson flatbed scanner driver. The scanner operates on a USB connection. The USB 2.0 driver is there and works with other USB devices. All other device drivers install and work with no problem, but when I install the Epson driver and then connect up the scanner, all the correct things are found in Add/Remove Programs, Device Manager, Scanners & Cameras, etc but if I try to start the scanner program, nothing happens, it never opens.

I've argued this out with Epson but they claim they've had no problem with their driver under Win2KSP4 (despite the fact they've produced four updates to the driver in the last two years, and a further one a week ago).

I'd like to contact Microsoft about this but there's no mechanism for that, other than their extortionate pay-and-report system.

Either there's something crucial missing from Win2KSP4 or Epson's driver is faulty. Thus, I'm wondering if I were to run a repair on Win2K whether that might help. Or could that screw up SP4. I've also got Update Rollup for Win2kSP4 installed.

All of Epson's driver versions for this scanner (Epson 3200 Perfection) have been tried on a newly-formatted partition, with no other device drivers yet installed, and the Epson drivers consistently fail to work. There are no 'problem devices' or IRQ clashes, either.

[gntlman]

All you need to do is:

1. Reboot the PC with the Windows 2000 CD in the drive and go
thru the repair process. Do it at least twice to make sure
that everything is repaired and cleaned out.

2. Go to
http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/downloads/servicepacks/sp4/default.asp and download Sp4. Run the update and follow all directions.

3. Go to http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=344902 and download the autopatcher. It should automatically select all of the patches you need and update your computer all the way up to July.

4. Go to http://update.microsoft.com/microsoftupdate/v6/default.aspx and download all of the major patches and whatever else you feel you need to download.

5. Run scandisk and then defrag your computer in order to make sure there is no fragmentation after all of the installations and reboots.

6. You now have a fully updated and repaired copy of Windows 2000 which will be updated all the way to Sp5. How do you know it is Sp5? Well go to http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html and it will tell you that there are Sp5 updates installed.

[gntlman]

About your USB drivers. Can you please let me know what motherboard and/or USB card you are using? Thanks!

[packman]

gntlman,

It might have escaped you that I already have SP4 installed. I also have all pre-SP4 updates installed. Furthermore, I also now have 'Update Rollup 1 for Win2KSP4' installed, so nobody could accuse me of not having my Win2K fully up to date.

The problem with this Epson driver began at a stage where I'd re-formatted my hard disk and had reinstalled Windows, plus SP4. I've retried that and other Epson drivers (updates to the driver) as I've added all my various updates to Win2K and no difference has been made to the problem.

At present, my hard disk doesn't require defragging.

There is no such thing as an SP5, BTW, even though one or two of Microsoft's Win2K updates call themselves 'pre-SP5'. Microsoft stopped their service packs at SP4. They will, however, issue 'update rollups' from time to time, the first having been issued about a month ago.

The USB drivers are an interesting point, one which I've explored in considerable detail. Before ever using SP4, I used the USB 2.0 drivers supplied with my motherboard (QDI Superb 4E). These were always installed by me at the correct juncture and always worked fine under Win2KSP2 and Win2KSP3. These were SiS USB 2.0 drivers, of the 7100 type.

When I first couldn't get the Epson driver to install, I searched for the official Microsoft 2.0 drivers and discovered they were provided inside SP4. Thus, I wondered whether installing them might do the trick. In fact, I was able to swop the SiS drivers for the Microsoft ones (simple and straighforward to do, and legitimate). However, this made no difference whatever to the problem.

As I say, my other USB devices have installed perfectly.

I use no add-on USB cards or external hubs. The existing USB ports are all motherboard-embedded. Six such ports, of which two are permanently in use, with a third occasionally used.

[gntlman]

Please listen to me and do as I had suggested. Sometimes things get screwed up and every now 'n then the system needs a good software overhaul. Also with an HP printer sometimes you need to go to the system manager and go to device manager then remove your usb drivers. Reboot and then let Windows reinstall them. I've been fighting with my papa's HP printer over some of the same problems and finally got it to work.

[packman]

But just because you managed to successfully repair your situation with an HP printer doesn't mean to say it's a universal panacea. With the drastic changes you're advising, I could well end up with bigger problems than I already have.

At the risk of appearing ungrateful, I think I would rather re-format and reinstall everything from a clean slate, but unfortunately that would involve me in about a week's solid work - and there'd still be no guarantee that the problem would be solved.

I've been analysing what happens during the setup process of this Epson driver, on my machine, and I'm convinced that there's a problem with the Windows installer.

Actually, Microsoft issued a patch for their Windows installer last year (which I've installed). It was included in the many updates for Win2KSP4 at the WU website. I remember it as being "an improved installer for various third-party device drivers". Clearly, some people had reported problems with certain third-party drivers. Perhaps that patch still isn't good enough?

[gntlman]

I guess there is no way to convince you that what I suggested will not cause you any more bigger problems than you already have will it? I've done it more than one time and my computer is always in tip top shape once I'm done. How much experience do you have with computers? How long have you been working with them? As far as that Epson driver it is possible that the patch wasn't good enough. If you want to find out if there are any patch conflicts I recommend you download the Belarc Advisor. It will tell you if there are any patches that are corrupt or need to be reinstalled. http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html

[packman]

I'm liaising again with Epson and this time we appear to be getting somewhere. The basic application that goes with the scanner driver (Epson Scan) never opens and we've tracked down the problem to an Epson/Environment section of the Windows Registry. The values in that part of the Registry represent the pixelar origin of the application when it opens on the Desktop and at present they're so enormously high that they're way, way off the screen. Thus, the GUI of the scanner application never opens (is never visible), even though Windows shows it as running in Task Manager. Altering the values to something sensible didn't work because as soon as you try to open the application, the old enormous values get immediately put back into the Registry. So, we need to find out why this is happening and how to put it right. It's most likely to be a bug in Win2KSP4 (caused by the service pack itself) but there's also a possibility that it's a fault in the Epson driver. In either case, it should be possible for Microsoft or Epson to provide a remedy, but it could take quite a while.

[pmistry]

When I used Windows 2000, I used to make Emergency Repair Disks using the "Backup Tool" simply click on the "Create Emergency Repair Disk" button and it would work. I am not sure if that is helpful or not, but worth looking into the next install, in case you have to format.

[packman]

Thanks pmistry, but I always make an Emergency Repair Disk. I also install Win2K's Repair Console. However, these are not designed for curing specific bugs in Win2K, they're primarily for enabling you to boot into Windows in the situation where the problem has prevented that.

[packman]

gntlman,

I'm a fairly experienced PC-builder and Windows user, and a retired IT engineer. I don't claim to be a total expert in Windows, though.

Your mentioning Belarc reminded me that, about 7 or 8 years ago, I used their free analyser program and found a serious bug in it. On occasions, instead of the Belarc program opening, some other application on my machine would open. Belarc refuted that there was ever any problem with the program but, in the end, I discovered that the problem was that they used an executable they'd simply named "setup.exe" and that this happened to correspond with the exact same executable for a different application on my PC. "Setup.exe" is hardly unique, after all. I informed Belarc of this but they never made any changes at that time. As with so many organisations, they just went into denial over it.

The moral of the story is to treat all software with caution, especially third-party software. The mere fact that certain software, or combinations of software, work perfectly well on some systems doesn't mean that that software is bugless and will work on all systems. The trouble is that there's so much third-party uncertified software out there in the big wide world.

[pmistry]

Originally posted by packman:

Quote:

Thanks pmistry, but I always make an Emergency Repair Disk. I also install Win2K's Repair Console. However, these are not designed for curing specific bugs in Win2K, they're primarily for enabling you to boot into Windows in the situation where the problem has prevented that.

From the looks of it, you already know the answer to your problem. Which is a format, I think the answer you were looking for probably doesn't exist. Just get it over with and start fresh again, that is what us experts do anyways, we wouldn't be satisfied with a "repaired" install anyways.

[packman]

But pmistry, you missed what I said earlier, that I'd already re-formatted a number of times and it'd made no difference to the problem.

Re-formatting is nearly always a terribly crucial thing to do and something not to be taken lightly, as even with having made decent backups, you'll still lose a certain amount of your personal files and you'll still be involved in a lot of work to restore things, especially if you're looking to change things after the re-format, in order to nail down a bug.

Anyway, in this instance, it looks like the problem's been caused by SP4 in conjunction with the Epson driver. Epson and I are still trying to pin it down, precisely. We've been right inside the Registry, monitoring things as the Epson program is initiated. They're having problems figuring out the results.

[Christianb]

For the record sis USB controllers blow. I repair computers and the first thing I do when a user is having a usb problem with a SiS controller is update the drivers. When that fails and it always has in my experience, then I make them get a USB 2.0 controller with an NEC Chipset. That was the only USB controller MS had to design their USB 2.0 interface against for most of its development cycle. It is the reference board. You can't find a more solid USB 2.0 board. Try getting one with 4 or 5 ports on the back and one internally. I'd just disable the onboard USB controller in the bios and in remove it from devman, hopefully it'll quit coming back, but if the motherboard has a bad IRQ routing table (common on generic boards) then you'll want to disable it in Devman.
Good Luck,
Christian Blackburn

[packman]

Christian,

I concur with what you say about SiS USB controllers but, when asked, SiS themselves were adamant that their USB 2.0 drivers were fully compliant. It's just that they produced theirs for Win2K well before Microsoft did. Frankly, I've had no problem with the SiS USB drivers over the three or more years I've been using that motherboard and, though investigated thoroughly by me of late, I still couldn't point to them as the source of the problem. I did, in fact, swop them for the Microsoft ones which are now provided within SP4, but it made no difference to the problem.

As I said earlier, the problem with the Epson driver seems to be that, under Win2KSP4, the reference screen point for opening the Epson Scan application starts off as something sensible but then, when the application is opened, the X and Y values get changed by the Epson exec file to enormously large values. Thus, you get nothing on the screen. This behaviour is puzzling Epson.

There's a suspicion that Windows is playing a part in this. Certainly, the Epson driver installed and worked fine under SP3, but fails to allow the application to open under SP4.
That's why I was wondering whether it was possible to repair Windows, if it came to the crunch.

[gntlman]

Did you install the update Rollup? When was the last time you had it working? What did you install just before it stopped working?