[robstr12]

Hello.
I am trying to help a friend out. We met on another board. He has just installed Fedora Core 1, and is trying to connect on the internet with www.dial4less.com (their site is down now - just happened today)

He is using kppp to connect with. Connection to net is good. However, there are DNS issues. The ISP does not give out DNS addresses. (I suppose they use "DHCP" [?] to give out the DNS IP addresses upon login time).

The ISP website (when it was up) had an internal link to a page with kppp instructions. I think that we configured it according to those instructions, but to no avail.

I have seen on other boards while googleing that you may be able to
put some other ISP's DNS server address in /etc/resolv.conf and use it. Is this unethical or illegal to do?

Also, when he cut and pasted his /etc/resolv.conf on the other board, it included a local address on his LAN.

if anyone is interested, he (mgrist) and I (Robster12) have been
trying to work through this on this thread (starting with post #155) in this thread here: (posts before #155 in this thread are not dealing with this at all)

http://forums.majorgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=34799&page=8&pp=20

I will post on that board and let him know about this post.

Thankyou,
Robert

[martouf]

I think it's a bit rude to post here and refer to a thread on a completely different
board and not provide here:
the name of the ISP
and
the contents of the problem /etc/resolv.conf file

I looked at the thread on the other board and couldn't quite make heads or tails of the
situation. I was able to see the ISP name is eskimo.com but I'm not about to sign up on the
board just to see the resolv.conf contents.

The IP addresses of the eskimo.com DNS servers are provided for you in the KPPP instructions.

You may need to configure kppp to not update resolv.conf based on the ppp negotiation with
eskimo.com and edit your own resolv.conf to get DNS resolution working for your friend.

[Dapper Dan]

Originally posted by martouf:

Quote:

I think it's a bit rude to post here and refer to a thread on a completely different
board and not provide here:
the name of the ISP
and
the contents of the problem /etc/resolv.conf file

I for one don't see this as a problem. I can read off other boards as well as this one, then post back here. In many cases, there's way too much material on the other forum that can be valuable in solving a problem, that is impractical to move all of it here. Inconvenient maybe, I think "rude" is way to strong a word.

[robstr12]

My apologies for rudeness.

The ISP in question is www.dial4less.com. The kppp instructions for their site are unavailable presently, because their web page is being updated. This happened today by surprise.

In general, the kppp program does not seem very hard to negotiate,
except for the screen where you configure DNS. There, the question arises whether or not to choose the option:


"Disable existing DNS servers during connection"

This admittedly could be determined through trial and error.

I only posted this here because I was so enthusiastic about getting my friend connected on his new Linux box. Otherwise, I would have tended to simply google about myself.

In my searches, though, it seems that most tutorials having to do with kppp make little allowances for situations where you are not given static DNS addresses.

Knowing this, I would have never gone down the road of trying to connect with such an ISP.

Perhaps my friend can join in the thread here, firsthand, or, perhaps it will be just as well to drop it, with no hard feelings.

Once again, I regret my lack of attention to net manners.

I feel a little over my head with this one.. So many variables..
he is connected to a LAN with may pose more problems...

I will advise him to try another ISP, one that is easier...

Thank you and happy tweaking to you both

[martouf]

DDan, the first two meanings of the word are "being in a rough or unfinished state"
and "lacking refinement or delicacy". I think an almost breathlessly worded posting
with a difficult to discern account of the problem qualifies.

Robstr12 - we'll do what we can to help but please keep in mind your responsibility to help us
pare down the information to the essence of the problem. Work with us and we'll be able
to work with you.

It seems you're confusing "static IP address" with the DNS data needed to bootstrap
you friend's DNS resolver. Technically, a static IP address is an address assigned to
a system for its exclusive use. It cannot be shared with any other system.
Dial4less is not selling you an address, so that's why when you ask about a static
address they won't agree or respond.

When you initiate your PPP link with Dial4less, you are issued a temporary address
by their equipment, many times referred to as a "dynamic IP address".

DNS is a service which translates human system naming to Internet address numbers.

Before DNS is functioning, how can a system resolve names to addresses?
You must supply to your system a list of pre-resolved addresses for the DNS servers
of your ISP. You can supply the addresses of any DNS server your system can reach,
but be aware in many cases ISPs prevent your accessing all but their own DNS servers.
It's more a question of neighborliness than legality.

The "disable existing DNS servers" checkbox has to do with what should be done with
the contents of an existing resolv.conf file when you initiate a PPP link?
If you don't choose to disable, then the resolv.conf contents will be used regardless
of the state of the PPP link. Choose this only if you have a local network providing
DNS services.

You will find three tools indispensible in collecting the information you need
when setting up a new system. The tools work on a system whose own DNS resolver is
functioning, so it may be necessary to get a friend to run them.

I'll run them and interpret their output for you (condensing the output as I go):

First the "whois" tool: "whois dial4less.com"
[size:3][tt]domain is registered by enom.com
registry service is provided by domain-registry.com
the technical contact is Ecom Networks, Inc and is located in Mount Laurel, NJ
name servers are NS.ECOMNET.NET and NS2.ECOMNET.NET
[/tt][/color]

Secondly the "dig" tool:
"dig www.dial4less.com"
[size:3][tt]Interesting.. this system has no address.
No surprise the website is "down", then.
[/tt][/color]
"dig ns.ecomnet.net"
[size:3][tt]This query returns useful information. Mainly, the IP addresses for all
three Ecom DNS servers (one more than is listed
in the dial4less registration information).

ns.ecomnet.net 209.3.183.5
ns2.ecomnet.net 209.3.185.6
ns3.ecomnet.net 65.115.231.135
[/tt][/color]

Thirdly the "host" tool: "host www.nameofsomesystem.com"
The host tool is for checking name resolution and for testing the resolver.

You must enter the already resolved addresses of the Ecom DNS servers into the DNS
configuration section of kppp so that your system knows how to reach the DNS servers
when you request name resolution after the ppp link is established.

[Dapper Dan]

martouf, please see your PM's

[robstr12]

Thankyou,
martouf.
This was WAY too hastily posed. I am mildly embarrassed, but will put it behind me.

Anyway... I advised him to take a "brute force" way out of the problem... to do a clean install.

That did it. kppp configured without a hitch.

MAYBE some default gateways were set up during the install that were wrong, since it was on the LAN at the time. (The subsequent install was as a standalone box).

Well, I have learned to be cool. This is a problem that I have in general.

That is enough about that. I will endevour to be more respectful in the future.

One last thing... The guy talked to me on the phone tonight.
He's having almost as much fun with his Linux as I am with mine.

As soon as I get a second box myself, I am sure that the Local Network concerns will be more clear to me, since then I can be hands on.

Thank you again.

Great site here!

Robert

[robstr12]

And, mucho appreciado for the mini-tute regarding
whois, dig, and host, martouf. Very well put.


Robert

[martouf]

glad to hear the troubles have been worked out.. 8) I'd venture your friend may have tried
some brute-forcing of configuration tools or config files in his efforts to get PPP working.

It wouldn't surprise me, and it can sometimes be effective. But the true power of Unix tools
and philosophy is the power of subtlety. Extensively and rigorously documented, but subtlety
nonetheless.

Although, I should point out putting things back to right didn't actually require
a full reinstallation: 'cause "Linux" is modular, see?

the kppp package is a separate and complete box o'stuff which can be reset to "stock"
by simple reinstallation of the package instead of the whole distro (a collection of packages).

Add +1 to the happy ending column, folks. My work here is done.

a closing remark for all seekers: do, please, do take a little time to compose your
problem/request/symptoms, describe them, give examples and include config file
contents, speak up on what you've tried to do about the problem, go ahead and give voice
to a suspicion you may harbor regarding the cause and effects, because offering help
in this way is alot like triage or diagnosis.