[shassouneh]

too complicated to use! driving me nutts1 I'm a computer science for god's sake and even I can't figure out! just imagine your typical college student trying to figure it out. Like give him an NIC and tell him "all you need to do is re-compie your kernel". come again? even I can't do that!

[INFERNO2000]

Linux doesn't suck.


you just have to get used to it. Give it some time, and stop yer fookin whinin.


It's not Linus' fault that the US was bred into DOS, and not Unix.



Most people's problem is that they're used to DOS commands. So when you're dropped into Unix, you're lost.


Take some time, learn what's different and new. Then it'll all seem natural.

There is a learning curve. This isn't your grandma's windows, after all.

[CrazyKillerMan]

If I had to pick a bad distro, I'd pick Corel. But I dont think linux sucks at all.

Its really powerful, especially for dollar/value.

As a computer science student, you can appreciate the free GNU as compared to spending over $150 for a Borland or Msoft IDE.

Using a newer version of X, you should be able to navigatye quite good until you are up to speed on the console commands.

[shassouneh]

Folks, it lookos like we have a misunderstanding. What I meant by Linux sux is that Linux fails to compete with Microsoft Windows as a desktop OS. If you WHERE ro argue that it DOES I can probably give you a shatter-free argument that most people would agree upon. Here is my argument:

-Pick someone at RANDOm from the street and ask him to USE a linux machine (NOT LEARN, but USE it) and at least 6 or 7 time ou of 10 he/she would fail to do it efficiently. However, at least 7 or 8 out of 10 WILL manage to use Microsoft Windows 95/98/Me/NT/2k/Xp with little or no effort? REGARDLESS OF WHY, its a fact!

Also what i meant is If I, a computer science student, can't seem to get it to work, how would someone at random be able to?

YES it has its pros, but t SHOULDN'T be compared to Windows as a DESKTOP OS

[CrazyKillerMan]

Quote:

-Pick someone at RANDOm from the street and ask him to USE a linux machine (NOT LEARN, but USE it) and at least 6 or 7 time ou of 10 he/she would fail to do it efficiently. However, at least 7 or 8 out of 10 WILL manage to use Microsoft Windows 95/98/Me/NT/2k/Xp with little or no effort? REGARDLESS OF WHY, its a fact!

I guess I missed that email.
My mother for instance, doesnt know what a hard drive does. Do you think that windows makes it easier for her to know what it is? Nope.

Quote:

Also what i meant is If I, a computer science student, can't seem to get it to work, how would someone at random be able to?

I can figure it out just fine. Have had a small amount of problems with it, and these problems are the same ones I had when installing win95, cause it was new to me.
Have been able to use linux right outta high school, and now I am in Computer Engineering Technology and I can assure you Linux is a very important operating system in our course.

How are you gonna learn to do OS programming on Windows ME. Its not open source.

[Igor]

Quote:

I guess I missed that email.
My mother for instance, doesnt know what a hard drive does. Do you think that windows makes it easier for her to know what it is? Nope.

No it doesn't, but with windows you don't need to know that to do stuff. In Linux you have to know what do you want to do, how it has to be done and what do you need to do it. In windows you can make a few bad guesses and still complete the task.

[three]

heh, i know plenty of ppl who have used windows and STILL don't know how to use it. i remember messing with Linux 2 years back, with redhat 5.1, it came with this huge reference book which was very useful, and also having a friend who knows the stuff was a bonus since he could log into my pc from the states and compile everything for me. i haven't really checked out any of the newer distros, but i can say that it has come a long long way and more user friendly with each distro. might wanna check out redmond linux, looks like a really nice distro.

ps. i'm not a computer science major...i'm a college dropout..but i still figured linux out and later installed and configured my own...
don't get me wrong, i still would prefer windows over linux, but then again, that's probably cause i'm a lazy b4stard, hehe

[clutch]

For every step Linux distros come to being "user friendly" like Windows, it becomes that much closer to being as "bloated" as Windows. NT never had the stability issues that 9x did, so that's not a big deal to me. Win2K and WinXP have worked really well for me, but yes they do need to be on more powerful systems. Will all of the distributions (although quite a few did die off with the market downturn) that are available using disimilar installs and the like, they are just shooting themselves in the foot. This newer one called "Lindows" sounds pretty cool though, as it addresses 2 important needs:

1. Usability for Windows peeps to make the transistion, and
2. The ability to handle MS applications as if they were native and do so transparently to the user (which in turns opens up its application base drastically).

Linux is cool as a toy, firewall, and file/utility server, but there is no reason for me to use it as a primary workstation (or any workstation) for the time being.

[shassouneh]

with all due respect, I still beleieve Linux does not manage to compete with windows for many reasons such as what I have listed above. Please don't get me wrong, you are certainly entitled to your own beleifs and opinions.
Also, as for hard drive I can ask you the same question: do you think LINUX will make it any easier for her to know what it is? I doubt it. Windows may not make it easier to know what a hard drive is, BUT we are NOT talking about what hardware is named. We're talking simple word processing / email / web browsers. You can't beat windows in terms of ease of use in that area, can you?

[INFERNO2000]

I put down Redhat, simply because it's the only one I've tried I've NEVER been ablet o get working

it's almost like it doesn't like my keyboard?

[CrazyKillerMan]

Quote:

We're talking simple word processing / email / web browsers

I'll give you that, but what if you need to save a typed document?
You have to at least know where they are and what they are.
Linux may have a different naming structure for the drives installed, but the difference between C: and /root is only a name, and a "c:" may not be interpereted as a storage location, and /root may not either.


Linux and windows are hardly comparable though. Linux is a strong environment for programming, and small server applications and the web server apache is extremely easy to use. Windows is good for alotta stuff, to many to name, and including programming and webserving (thnx again clutch).

Do I run linux 24-7? No. Do I think windows is better that linux? No. Do I think they are used seperatly, depending on use and applications? Yes.

For instance, I worked at a research company and the programmers there primarily used a windows/linux boot combo. Why? Because they both have their useful points.
Even some *nix distro's are aiming primarily at media, I beleive its FreeBSD that has tons of support for 3d applications, and video editing.

Quote:

I put down Redhat, simply because it's the only one I've tried I've NEVER been ablet o get working

LOL...same with me, cept replace keyboard with video card. But I got slackware running just fine.

And you could also say that about a via/sblive/nvidia/M$ combo. Linux has less support than windows for sure, but, writing drivers and fixes is something I'll be able to do soon!

[three]

Quote:

Linux is cool as a toy

lol, don't let any linux users see that! actually you'd be surprised how many big corps run linux as servers, and for important stuff, not for simple web servers. a buddy of mine from college is now working for VISA and they're running linux for some secure application. how do i know? the first day on the job he was messing around with some of the settings and was visited by VISA security right afterwards, almost cost him his job, hehe

[CrazyKillerMan]

Ya...we used linux box's as clusters for number crunching and have setup mailservers for cross canada company. Its definatly a powerful tool thats for sure. And...its free!

[clutch]

Quote:

lol, don't let any linux users see that! actually you'd be surprised how many big corps run linux as servers, and for important stuff, not for simple web servers. a buddy of mine from college is now working for VISA and they're running linux for some secure application. how do i know? the first day on the job he was messing around with some of the settings and was visited by VISA security right afterwards, almost cost him his job, hehe

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised since I have some friends that use Linux distros in various companies as consultants, and one of them uses Linux in state government offices. HE is one of the people that thinks Linux is most definately not ready for primetime as a desktop OS. Also, I read an article about VISA and its redundant NOCs. And I would have to say that

A. I doubt your friend would be able to get into a highly secure application without some serious clearance in the first place. And, with that clearance, proper training in their separate testing grounds first (yep, they have a separate testing grounds to simulate their workload, and then they do full scale testing at a site hosted by IBM), and

B. It isn't (by far) an off the shelf distro, and is probably based off of some BSD variant. When you are that big and that good (I don't imagine hiring top notch programmers would be an issue :)) you can make an OS do whatever you want.

It was a really nice article, and they seem QUITE secretive (can you blame them?) even to the point that while the walls are solid concrete, they have fake windows in them so the building will blend with the landscape. There are no signs posted about declaring who they are either. Sounds like an interesting environment to say least.

One more thing, if your friend is in a position to do that again, you might want to make sure he keeps straight when working with the systems, or losing the job might be the least of his worries (no, I don't think they'll kill him, but criminal prosecution isn't that fun either).

[three]

to tell you the truth, i'm not sure what he does over there, i just know the first day on the job he was using his managers account to log in to 'familiarize' himself with their system. i highly doubt that he's in a high position though. my point just stating that linux can be a very powerful tool.

as for regular end user, i think it can be used by the average joe if it's properly configured and installed first. lets remember that the average joe buys a pc pre-installed with windows too. if you were to give that person a pc and tell him/her to install it from scratch, i'm sure they'd run into TONS of problems configuring everything as well. ask anybody off the street about fdisk/partitions/etc. and check out their reaction.

lets not forget the topic of the thread, it was does linux suck or what?

[clutch]

Unfortunately, I think he meant something other than the linear "is it a POS OS?" but more of poor marketing and user interface. Both of which I would have to say "suck a$$" as well.

Marketing in that there are too damn many versions of it that do different things and have no unified installer other than manually copying files, and...

UI in that there are several versions for no apparent reason other than to give something to discuss at each geek-fest.

There's 50 text editors, several ways to get your IP, and billions of utilities that all do the same thing. This sounds an *awful* lot like Windows for an OS that claims to be nothing like Windows except that all of this garbage tends to come with the CD distro that you may buy or download. It took me forever to figure out with editor did what and what modules to filter through or remove entirely during setup when I used Mandrake. I don't really care much for the GUIs (KDE over Gnome, that's for damn sure :)), but then again they are more of an afterthought since they are designed by other groups.

[three]

the last time i messed around with linux was with mandrake 7.?? and from what i remembered, corel office came with a self installer instead of the previous /make /make config /make install crap that you had to do in the past.

true there are way to many distro's out there, but the bigger names are the ones trying to target end users. it's kinda tough to bundle everything or alteast bundle some standard apps into it cause isn't that what microsoft is in trouble for? b'sides, the idea behind letting you choose what's right for you is great, but then again..like i said before, i'm a pretty lazy guy so that's why i stick with microsoft and so does the rest of the 90% soho market.

[shassouneh]

Quote:

Linux and windows are hardly comparable though. Linux is a strong environment for programming, and small server applications and the web server apache is extremely easy to use. Windows is good for alotta stuff, to many to name, and including programming and webserving (thnx again clutch).

Linux may be better in windows in terms of open-source and server stuff, but I still have a hard time digesting the possibility that for DESKTOP uses, linux is EASIER to use than windows! I'll give you that it probably runs better servers, and runs on less hardware, btut its a compromise with windows too. You compromise some hardware for a lot of ease-of-use. Not too bad of a bargain I think.
Also, Linux was derived from Unix, which was created for the sole purpose of networking and servers. Windows was written to run MULTIPLE stuff. The main focus is running more than one thing at one time.
Folks, if there ever is a Windows NT fanatic, its probably me. I just can't see or even imagine linux beating windows in terms of ease of use.
Before you shoot me, let me assure you that I have given linux a fair try. I have tried Redhat 7.1, Mandrake 7.1,7.2,8.0,8.1, WinLinux, etc... and I have never managed to get it working perfectly. Also, what the heack does it mean when sndconfig says "sound card not supported by kernel"? I know I'll have to re-compile the kernel, but get THIS: I have all the utilities and dependencies needed, when I re-compi;e the kernel (after running make xconfig), what do i get? a big fat ERROR 2! go figure!

What I'm saying is with windows I don' HAVE to worry about re-configuring my hardware or re-compiling the kernel. Just plug the damn thing in and get the driver. With linux, that's not always possible!

I mean come on gys, give windows some slack here!

[EddiE314]

no (or hardly any) 3rd party support, that in itself makes linux suck....although i personally think it has a hell of a lot of potential, the worst distro is by far Redhat though.

[shassouneh]

I think you're right. 3rd part software seems reluctant to support linux.
by the way, RedHat is not that bad. After all, it DOES set the standards for some Linux Technologies. Who would have ever thought RPM would be possible? RPMs are now in both RedHate and Mandrake. I prefer Mandrake myself over Redhat because They always have a more updated kernel and come out after RedHat does, essentially fixing bugs and such...
However, I still beleive Linux is not pulling it enough.. Again folks, I'ma Windows NT fanatic, so please understand my point of view here!