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Says it all. Makes doing webpages a hell of a lot easier and error free! That and a nice student discount got me it for ten bucks...:D
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I love Front Page
#1
Brian Frank 
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Posted 21 November 2001 - 09:35 AM
#4
CrazyKillerMan
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Posted 21 November 2001 - 05:02 PM
....
I think that in one webpage, front page puts more nbsp's than I have ever typed.
Quote:
Just never let a web programmer hear you say that. Have you ever looked at the junk code it creates? Bleech!!
I think that in one webpage, front page puts more nbsp's than I have ever typed.
#5
clutch
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Posted 21 November 2001 - 05:34 PM
Quote:
Just never let a web programmer hear you say that. Have you ever looked at the junk code it creates? Bleech!!
Could be worse, he *could* be using MS Word to do web pages.
Also, Front Page is nice for working with MS cab files that use special functions (like showing contacts, calendar events, email, etc) to be shown in webpages. You can set all the desired parameters in the GUI rather than trying to remember them all yourself. Personally, I use Visual Interdev 6 and Adobe GoLive! 5 for my sites, but occasionally due configuration of said cab files with Front Page if I can't remember all the parameters.
#7
Busby
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Posted 21 November 2001 - 08:32 PM
One word: Notepad
Everytime you press enter it adss like 5 lines of code in Frontpage. Want a table? Adds options u don't even need and then doesn't add necessary options. What I personally do is create the basic layout using Notepad and a graphics program. Make a template using SSI and then copy and paste the HTML and make the pages using Frontpage. Just recently did that for my school's site. Copying and Pasting old info into a graphical interface is so much easier than Notepad but for designs Frontpage sucks ***. Oh and FP is now starting to use div and span tags, it's default but can be turned off. I've never messed with GoLive or InterDev or Dreamweaver or any program besides Notepad and Frontpage when i'm forced to.
Everytime you press enter it adss like 5 lines of code in Frontpage. Want a table? Adds options u don't even need and then doesn't add necessary options. What I personally do is create the basic layout using Notepad and a graphics program. Make a template using SSI and then copy and paste the HTML and make the pages using Frontpage. Just recently did that for my school's site. Copying and Pasting old info into a graphical interface is so much easier than Notepad but for designs Frontpage sucks ***. Oh and FP is now starting to use div and span tags, it's default but can be turned off. I've never messed with GoLive or InterDev or Dreamweaver or any program besides Notepad and Frontpage when i'm forced to.
#8
CrazyKillerMan
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Posted 21 November 2001 - 09:49 PM
Quote:
One word: Notepad
ouch
why not textpad...alot easier to edit web designs when its nice and colored.
#9
Xiven
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Posted 21 November 2001 - 09:52 PM
Please excuse the huge long post.
Okay, following is an example of an HTML document created by FrontPage that is claimed to be an HTML 4 document. I've hidden some parts to hide the identity of the site itself. Now let's spot the errors shall we?
___________
[size:9]Missing <!doctype> declaration - see here for details[/color]
<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
[size:9]<html> tag can only have 2 attributes: "lang" & "dir". All other attributes are invalid (details).[/color]
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Language" content="en-gb">
<meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 5.0">
<meta name="ProgId" content="FrontPage.Editor.Document">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
<link rel="File-List" href="***************/filelist.xml">
<title>***************</title>
<base target="main">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* { behavior: url(#default#VML) }
o\:* { behavior: url(#default#VML) }
.shape { behavior: url(#default#VML) }
</style>
<![endif]-->
<!--[if gte mso 9]>
<xml><o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1027"/>
</xml><![endif]-->
[size:9]The above 10 lines are complete and utter MS trash. There is no such tag "<xml>" and the rest serves no purpose whatsoever and is certainly not valid HTML.[/color]
</head>
<body text="#FFFFFF" bgcolor="#000080">
[size:9]Styles should be specified using a style sheet. The "text" and "bgcolor" attributes are no longer in the HTML standard.[/color]
<p><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t136"
coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="136" adj="10800" path="m@7,l@8,m@5,21600l@6,21600e">
<v:formulas>
<v:f eqn="sum #0 0 10800"/>
<v:f eqn="prod #0 2 1"/>
<v:f eqn="sum 21600 0 @1"/>
<v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @2"/>
<v:f eqn="sum 21600 0 @3"/>
<v:f eqn="if @0 @3 0"/>
<v:f eqn="if @0 21600 @1"/>
<v:f eqn="if @0 0 @2"/>
<v:f eqn="if @0 @4 21600"/>
<v:f eqn="mid @5 @6"/>
<v:f eqn="mid @8 @5"/>
<v:f eqn="mid @7 @8"/>
<v:f eqn="mid @6 @7"/>
<v:f eqn="sum @6 0 @5"/>
</v:formulas>
<v:path textpathok="t" o:connecttype="custom" o:connectlocs="@9,0;@10,10800;@11,21600;@12,10800"
o:connectangles="270,180,90,0"/>
<v:textpath on="t" fitshape="t"/>
<v:handles>
<v:h position="#0,bottomRight" xrange="6629,14971"/>
</v:handles>
<o:lock v:ext="edit" text="t" shapetype="t"/>
</v:shapetype><v:shape id="_x0000_s1026" type="#_x0000_t136" style='width:121.5pt;
height:35.25pt'>
<v:shadow on="t" opacity="52429f"/>
<v:textpath style='font-family:"Arial Black";font-style:italic;v-text-kern:t'
trim="t" fitpath="t" string="**********"/>
</v:shape><![endif]--><![if !vml]>
[size:9]The above 25 or so lines are total garbage and have no meaning in HTML[/color]
<img border=0 width=167 height=51 src="*************/image001.gif" alt=************ v:shapes="_x0000_s1026"><![endif]>
<font size="1" face="Tahoma"> *******************</font></p>
[size:9]<font> tag is deprecated in HTML 4 (no longer valid)[/color]
<p align="center">
<a title="Downloads" href="downloads.htm">
<img border="0" src="******************/Downloads.gif" width="120" height="54"></a></p>
</body>
</html>
___________
Okay, now here's the same page written in proper HTML:
___________
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN">
<html lang="en-gb">
<head>
<style type="text/css">
body: { background-color: #000080; color: #ffffff; }
img: { border: none; }
p: { font-family: tahoma, arial, sans-serif; }
p.center: { text-align: center; }
</style>
</head>
<body>
<p>
<img width="167" height="51" src="*************/image001.gif" alt="************">
*******************
</p>
<p class="center">
<a title="Downloads" href="downloads.htm">
<img border="0" src="******************/Downloads.gif" width="120" height="54"></a>
</p>
</body>
</html>
____________
Now which one do you think will take longer to load?
Okay, following is an example of an HTML document created by FrontPage that is claimed to be an HTML 4 document. I've hidden some parts to hide the identity of the site itself. Now let's spot the errors shall we?
___________
[size:9]Missing <!doctype> declaration - see here for details[/color]
<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
[size:9]<html> tag can only have 2 attributes: "lang" & "dir". All other attributes are invalid (details).[/color]
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Language" content="en-gb">
<meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 5.0">
<meta name="ProgId" content="FrontPage.Editor.Document">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
<link rel="File-List" href="***************/filelist.xml">
<title>***************</title>
<base target="main">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* { behavior: url(#default#VML) }
o\:* { behavior: url(#default#VML) }
.shape { behavior: url(#default#VML) }
</style>
<![endif]-->
<!--[if gte mso 9]>
<xml><o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1027"/>
</xml><![endif]-->
[size:9]The above 10 lines are complete and utter MS trash. There is no such tag "<xml>" and the rest serves no purpose whatsoever and is certainly not valid HTML.[/color]
</head>
<body text="#FFFFFF" bgcolor="#000080">
[size:9]Styles should be specified using a style sheet. The "text" and "bgcolor" attributes are no longer in the HTML standard.[/color]
<p><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t136"
coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="136" adj="10800" path="m@7,l@8,m@5,21600l@6,21600e">
<v:formulas>
<v:f eqn="sum #0 0 10800"/>
<v:f eqn="prod #0 2 1"/>
<v:f eqn="sum 21600 0 @1"/>
<v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @2"/>
<v:f eqn="sum 21600 0 @3"/>
<v:f eqn="if @0 @3 0"/>
<v:f eqn="if @0 21600 @1"/>
<v:f eqn="if @0 0 @2"/>
<v:f eqn="if @0 @4 21600"/>
<v:f eqn="mid @5 @6"/>
<v:f eqn="mid @8 @5"/>
<v:f eqn="mid @7 @8"/>
<v:f eqn="mid @6 @7"/>
<v:f eqn="sum @6 0 @5"/>
</v:formulas>
<v:path textpathok="t" o:connecttype="custom" o:connectlocs="@9,0;@10,10800;@11,21600;@12,10800"
o:connectangles="270,180,90,0"/>
<v:textpath on="t" fitshape="t"/>
<v:handles>
<v:h position="#0,bottomRight" xrange="6629,14971"/>
</v:handles>
<o:lock v:ext="edit" text="t" shapetype="t"/>
</v:shapetype><v:shape id="_x0000_s1026" type="#_x0000_t136" style='width:121.5pt;
height:35.25pt'>
<v:shadow on="t" opacity="52429f"/>
<v:textpath style='font-family:"Arial Black";font-style:italic;v-text-kern:t'
trim="t" fitpath="t" string="**********"/>
</v:shape><![endif]--><![if !vml]>
[size:9]The above 25 or so lines are total garbage and have no meaning in HTML[/color]
<img border=0 width=167 height=51 src="*************/image001.gif" alt=************ v:shapes="_x0000_s1026"><![endif]>
<font size="1" face="Tahoma"> *******************</font></p>
[size:9]<font> tag is deprecated in HTML 4 (no longer valid)[/color]
<p align="center">
<a title="Downloads" href="downloads.htm">
<img border="0" src="******************/Downloads.gif" width="120" height="54"></a></p>
</body>
</html>
___________
Okay, now here's the same page written in proper HTML:
___________
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN">
<html lang="en-gb">
<head>
<style type="text/css">
body: { background-color: #000080; color: #ffffff; }
img: { border: none; }
p: { font-family: tahoma, arial, sans-serif; }
p.center: { text-align: center; }
</style>
</head>
<body>
<p>
<img width="167" height="51" src="*************/image001.gif" alt="************">
*******************
</p>
<p class="center">
<a title="Downloads" href="downloads.htm">
<img border="0" src="******************/Downloads.gif" width="120" height="54"></a>
</p>
</body>
</html>
____________
Now which one do you think will take longer to load?
#11
clutch
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Posted 21 November 2001 - 10:54 PM
Ick, but then again I don't use embedded style sheets. I just link to external CSS files so I can control the look of the site from one location.
However, lean code or not Front Page is still good for the beginner. I used Notepad and the Front Page 98 initially, and FP worked well. I used FP 2000 briefly while using Dreamweaver, but I wound up doing most of my coding in Visual Interdev because FP (and even Dreamweaver initially) would screw up my ASP coding all the time while trying to "help" me.
However, lean code or not Front Page is still good for the beginner. I used Notepad and the Front Page 98 initially, and FP worked well. I used FP 2000 briefly while using Dreamweaver, but I wound up doing most of my coding in Visual Interdev because FP (and even Dreamweaver initially) would screw up my ASP coding all the time while trying to "help" me.
#12
Xiven
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Posted 22 November 2001 - 01:21 AM
Quote:
Ick, but then again I don't use embedded style sheets. I just link to external CSS files so I can control the look of the site from one location.
I don't use embedded style sheets either, it was just easier to provide a one-file example.
#13
clutch
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Posted 22 November 2001 - 01:55 AM
I kinda figured as much, since you seem to take HTML coding more seriously than most 
. Once I saw that, I remembered how badly it implemented style forms and seems to need extra files for all the extra metadata that MS editors seem so fond of (thanks to FP extensions). Most people "grow out" of these editors and move on to Dreamweaver and the like.
Now, trailing a bit from the original topic; I have used Dreamweaver 1-4/UD, GoLive! 5, Drumbeat 2000, Visual Interdev 6 (Visual Studio 6), FP 98-2002/Express, and some others that I can't think of right now (I think ASPEdit was one, and some other little ASP/JSP/HTML text editors) and for the life of me I cannot see the attraction to Dreamweaver. Do you use DW, Xiven? Can you clue me in as to what the attraction is? I love Flash (though I haven't been really good at it) and some of the other Macromedia stuff, but I have never really cared for Dreamweaver.
. Once I saw that, I remembered how badly it implemented style forms and seems to need extra files for all the extra metadata that MS editors seem so fond of (thanks to FP extensions). Most people "grow out" of these editors and move on to Dreamweaver and the like. Now, trailing a bit from the original topic; I have used Dreamweaver 1-4/UD, GoLive! 5, Drumbeat 2000, Visual Interdev 6 (Visual Studio 6), FP 98-2002/Express, and some others that I can't think of right now (I think ASPEdit was one, and some other little ASP/JSP/HTML text editors) and for the life of me I cannot see the attraction to Dreamweaver. Do you use DW, Xiven? Can you clue me in as to what the attraction is? I love Flash (though I haven't been really good at it) and some of the other Macromedia stuff, but I have never really cared for Dreamweaver.
#14
Xiven
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Posted 22 November 2001 - 02:50 AM
I don't use dreamweaver personally, though I know someone who uses Dreamweaver UltraDev, and I have to admit, it's pretty good for a WYSYWIG editor. It can generate reasonable HTML, and it even integrates fairly well with ASP (with databases and the like). Having said all that though, I'd never use it.
I use UltraEdit for writing flat HTML and SHTML pages, and I use Visual Interdev for ASP and anything database related.
I worked for a year as a Web Developer working on Web Applications on a company intranet and I had to fix a lot of trashy HTML pages while there which is probably why I so passionately hate MS FrontPage.
I use UltraEdit for writing flat HTML and SHTML pages, and I use Visual Interdev for ASP and anything database related.
I worked for a year as a Web Developer working on Web Applications on a company intranet and I had to fix a lot of trashy HTML pages while there which is probably why I so passionately hate MS FrontPage.
#15
CrazyKillerMan
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Posted 22 November 2001 - 03:47 AM
Quote:
I worked for a year as a Web Developer working on Web Applications on a company intranet and I had to fix a lot of trashy HTML pages while there which is probably why I so passionately hate MS FrontPage.
same here.....only for 4 months (summer job)...crappiest code EVER(simpsons comic book guy)!!!
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